Braves listening on Inciarte, Teheran, and Markakis for power bat; Freeman staying

Enscheff said:
MLBTR predicted Gordon to sign for 5/105, and he ended up getting 4/72.

JUp was predicted to get 7/147 and Ces was projected to get 6/140, so a similar bargain rate contract would be about 5/100 to 5/110. Maybe less guaranteed years if an option year with a $5M buyout is included.

Yes, either would be a great signing for the Braves, and would set them up to compete by 2017 as long as Tehran and Inciarte are not traded.

I would NOT be interested in signing either player for the predicted $140M+ price tags.
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Sold.
 
2017 will be 2016.

Fredi will lead us to the playoffs and a wild card birth just missing the division in a series at the end of the regular season full of pitching duels.
 
praeceps93 said:
I don't really agree with this. Yes, free agents sign with teams they want to play for, but they also sign where the money/contention window works out for them. Us signing Markakis last year and trading him now is different to, say, the Marlins firesale back in the day. What they did, signing a bunch of bigtime FAs then selling them all a year later, is different from signing a mid-tier FA, changing our contention strategy pretty significantly in the meantime, and then trading him. I don't think future free agents are going to look at us and say, "Hmmm they kept Markakis for 2 years/1.5 years instead of 1 year, I can sign there." If anything were to negatively impact us in future contract negotiations, I would actually say it's trading homegrown guys like Andrelton right after signing a long-term extension (though I also don't think it will matter much if at all, just a consideration).
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If we were the Dodgers it would be a non-issue. Money covers a multitude of sins. However, with big time free agents we tend to sell ourselves as a more attractive destination than the big money markets. It actually does help us a good bit. It's not something we should just throw aside. Any discounts we can get are good things.
 
I think the packaging of Inciarte and Teheran probably brings the best return back for the Braves since Inciarte is likely to regress a bit and Teheran is likely to improve. Teams will see that. Having said that and out of the rumored clubs that have some interest, I think the Cubs and Astros make the most sense. The deal coming back would be different in each case though.

With the Cubs, they need to have Heyward in RF and a really good/fast CF to cover for Schwarber. There is no way the Cubs can be serious about an OF of Schwarber, Heyward, Soler unless they have no other choice. This is a team on the cusp of a WS. Soler is expendable for them as is Baez. Do they want to give up either of them? No. Can they? yes. So I see a deal with them as Teheran and Inciarte for Baez, Soler and Jiminez.

As for Houston, same deal as the Cubs. They need SP depth and an OBP guy for CF who can cover any defensive holes they may have in LF. Springer would be nice to get back as part of a return but it sounds like they would have to move Gomez for the money to work which would mean Inciarte is in CF and not RF and, unlike the Cubs, they don't have a Heyward out of position to slide over. Because of that I don't see them moving Springer. After all, they are on the cusp of a WS as well. SO, I think you could get an overpay from them IF you are willing to take prospects and Gomez.

I am thinking Inciarte and Teheran for CF Gomez, RF Kyle Tucker, LF Derek Fisher, 2B Tony Kemp, 3B JD Davis. The Braves take Gomez and his salary and several future pieces. Then the Braves can either move Gomez at the deadline OR get the pick from the QO.

Of course, with the Cubs deal you play Baez at short which allows you to move Aybar and you play Soler at RF which allows you to move Markakis.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I think the packaging of Inciarte and Teheran probably brings the best return back for the Braves since Inciarte is likely to regress a bit and Teheran is likely to improve. Teams will see that. Having said that and out of the rumored clubs that have some interest, I think the Cubs and Astros make the most sense. The deal coming back would be different in each case though.

With the Cubs, they need to have Heyward in RF and a really good/fast CF to cover for Schwarber. There is no way the Cubs can be serious about an OF of Schwarber, Heyward, Soler unless they have no other choice. This is a team on the cusp of a WS. Soler is expendable for them as is Baez. Do they want to give up either of them? No. Can they? yes. So I see a deal with them as Teheran and Inciarte for Baez, Soler and Jiminez.

As for Houston, same deal as the Cubs. They need SP depth and an OBP guy for CF who can cover any defensive holes they may have in LF. Springer would be nice to get back as part of a return but it sounds like they would have to move Gomez for the money to work which would mean Inciarte is in CF and not RF and, unlike the Cubs, they don't have a Heyward out of position to slide over. Because of that I don't see them moving Springer. After all, they are on the cusp of a WS as well. SO, I think you could get an overpay from them IF you are willing to take prospects and Gomez.

I am thinking Inciarte and Teheran for CF Gomez, RF Kyle Tucker, LF Derek Fisher, 2B Tony Kemp, 3B JD Davis. The Braves take Gomez and his salary and several future pieces. Then the Braves can either move Gomez at the deadline OR get the pick from the QO.

Of course, with the Cubs deal you play Baez at short which allows you to move Aybar and you play Soler at RF which allows you to move Markakis.
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I would like to ask for another piece from the cubs... maybe Candelario or a young Pitcher. or take Soler or Baez plus Underwood/Contreras/Eloy.. and maybe another small piece.. Might as well ask for the sky and see if they go all Arizona on you. Stros package I like.. that would be a good return. I would like springer like you said.. but to have Gomez for half a year would be a good chip to have come deadline time.
 
I'm big on Baez and Soler. My only issue with them is a high strikeout rate. Those type of guys scare the crap out of me, but I think the potential that both of them bring is top of the line. That being said, I don't think the Cubs will trade both of them, especially now that Baez is slated to be in the starting lineup with the trade of Castro (unless I'm overlooking something). I don't know what other pieces I would want from Chicago to go along with Soler, but I do think that outfield depth is their strength right now and Inciarte fits them perfectly, other than the fact that he is left-handed, which would give them five lefties (Inciarte, Montero, Rizzo, Heyward and Schwarber) in the lineup.

As for Houston, I don't know what sort of package I would expect. Teheran will surely perform better than his 2015 numbers and I think any team could use a player like Inciarte on their club. Kyle Tucker is intriguing and so is JD Davis. But again, we circle back to many players having a high strikeout rate. The MLB average was 19.9% last season per plate appearance. Many players that I like in the minors have a higher strikeout rate than that, but they also possess big time power. Maybe those two just go hand-in-hand nowadays.

Also when looking at a possible return, what does the front office see as an appropriate time for a rebuild? 2017? 2018? 2019? Later? A lot of the Braves minor league depth is in the lower minors right now, which is also where names from other organizations are that are being mentioned on this board. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but if they really are expecting to compete in 2017 (which doesn't seem as likely to me) then they are going to need some depth in the upper minors. Just my two cents.
 
bamfin21 said:
I'm big on Baez and Soler. My only issue with them is a high strikeout rate. Those type of guys scare the crap out of me, but I think the potential that both of them bring is top of the line. That being said, I don't think the Cubs will trade both of them, especially now that Baez is slated to be in the starting lineup with the trade of Castro (unless I'm overlooking something). I don't know what other pieces I would want from Chicago to go along with Soler, but I do think that outfield depth is their strength right now and Inciarte fits them perfectly, other than the fact that he is left-handed, which would give them five lefties (Inciarte, Montero, Rizzo, Heyward and Schwarber) in the lineup.

As for Houston, I don't know what sort of package I would expect. Teheran will surely perform better than his 2015 numbers and I think any team could use a player like Inciarte on their club. Kyle Tucker is intriguing and so is JD Davis. But again, we circle back to many players having a high strikeout rate. The MLB average was 19.9% last season per plate appearance. Many players that I like in the minors have a higher strikeout rate than that, but they also possess big time power. Maybe those two just go hand-in-hand nowadays.

Also when looking at a possible return, what does the front office see as an appropriate time for a rebuild? 2017? 2018? 2019? Later? A lot of the Braves minor league depth is in the lower minors right now, which is also where names from other organizations are that are being mentioned on this board. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but if they really are expecting to compete in 2017 (which doesn't seem as likely to me) then they are going to need some depth in the upper minors. Just my two cents.
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Cubs signed Zobrist to play 2B and have Russell at short and Bryant at 3B. Baez isn't playing for the Cubs UNLESS someone gets hurt OR he becomes a natural CF.

As for SO, I don't see them as a big deal for a power hitter as long as he hits. The Braves were loaded down with K guys in 13 who hit for power. Same guys still K'd in 14 but DIDN'T hit for power leading to two different offenses.

Unless you have a potential HoF guy, a power hitter is typically going to K quite a bit.
 
Yep. Totally forgot about Zobrist. Silly on my part. It still leaves a lot of lefties in the lineup, should they add Inciarte.

I'm not saying don't go after guys with high K rates. I'm just saying that I get scared seeing someone do it in the minor leagues and, to an extent, in the major leagues. Yes, those players do have real time power, but they also, in my opinion, tend to be streaky. That's what hurt the Braves in the 2013-14 playoffs. Everyone seemed to get cold at the wrong time AND they had to go up against one of the best rotations in baseball. I love the potential of the guys I listed, I just said that I am also wary of them. But shouldn't you be like that with most prospects? Again, just my opinion.
 
Do we have to give up Tehran? If Inciarte is this great asset could we not give up a Wisler, Folty, Jenkins type? If someone is looking for SP depth and a CF with good contact OBP? I get you need to move Tehran if you're looking for the mega package.

You get the most talent you can....but for prospects it seems like C is the black hole. I can at least hope Ruiz starts to play well or Riley is a savant at 3B.

Basically everyone in the cubs system is blocked unless you are a CF, C, or P now, right? If we give up Inciarte and Tehran I'd like to get quality and quantity.
 
bamfin21 said:
Yep. Totally forgot about Zobrist. Silly on my part. It still leaves a lot of lefties in the lineup, should they add Inciarte.

I'm not saying don't go after guys with high K rates. I'm just saying that I get scared seeing someone do it in the minor leagues and, to an extent, in the major leagues. Yes, those players do have real time power, but they also, in my opinion, tend to be streaky. That's what hurt the Braves in the 2013-14 playoffs. Everyone seemed to get cold at the wrong time AND they had to go up against one of the best rotations in baseball. I love the potential of the guys I listed, I just said that I am also wary of them. But shouldn't you be like that with most prospects? Again, just my opinion.
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It would be very interesting. I wouldn't be surprised to see us sign a big bat and go after Soler/Baez for Ender/Teheran. Our lineup would be very solid, but the rotation has a lot of questions.
 
Both the Cubs and the Astros have a lot of interesting players. McKinney from the Cubs is a guy I would like to see the Braves target over Baez, and maybe over Soler. He is basically a young Markakis from what I have read.

Having said that, I am all for trading Inciarte, but I don't think this is a good time to trade Teheran. Unlike trading Miller at his absolute peak value, Teheran's value is at a bit of a low point right now.

I think some people forget that Teheran has a remaining contract of 4/29 ($3M, $6M, $8M, $11M, plus $1M buyout) with another option year for an additional $11M. If he bounces back to be the 3+ WAR pitcher he was in 2013 and 2014, he is an insanely valuable asset at that salary. If he posts 4 seasons of 3 WAR he is "worth" close to $100M over those 4 years, while only being paid $29M. That is a potentially HUGE surplus value, and there is room for him to be even more than a 3 WAR pitcher since he produced 3.2 at age 22 and 3.9 at age 23.
 
I think if we trade with the Stros we come away with Springer somehow. Nehak/Springer/Feliz/Davis for Julio/Ender could make sense. We'd be taking on a couple of million, but we'd flip Neshak in July anyhow.

The follow up would be moving Markakis and signing another SP
 
Chico said:
I think if we trade with the Stros we come away with Springer somehow. Nehak/Springer/Feliz/Davis for Julio/Ender could make sense. We'd be taking on a couple of million, but we'd flip Neshak in July anyhow.

The follow up would be moving Markakis and signing another SP
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A move for Springer would be fantastic. I've always been a big fan. I prefer him over Soler or Baez, that's for sure.
 
Chico said:
This is the one I like. I'd love a deal for Springer. He'd be perfect for us. The Stros are looking for some contact hitters to balance out their lineup and will need a CF next year when Gomez and Rasmus are gone. Julio would be perfect for them as they don't have many SP prospects on the horizon and it's hard for them to go after the big FA pitchers.

A deal based around Julio and Ender for Springer PLUS could make sense. We would have to trade Markakis to make room for Springer, but that may already be in the works.
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I don't see the Astros giving up Springer; certainly not Springer PLUS for Teheran and Iciarte.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
You're right there. It'd be Teheran AND Inciarte for Springer. We wouldn't get more without giving more.
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I disagree. Springer is good, but he is not worth Julio and Ender straight up. Julio with his contract should be worth a 4 WAR player alone. Ender is a 3 WAR player just by his defense. The poster is clearly trading Springer for Julio and Ender.. but adding JD Davis and Feliz in exchange for taking Salary in Neshek.. Depending on how much the Astros need better defense and OBP.. they might do that trade.

Personally I like the other Stros proposal with Gomez.. but to say Julio/Ender = Springer.. I just don't know about that.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I disagree. Springer is good, but he is not worth Julio and Ender straight up. Julio with his contract should be worth a 4 WAR player alone. Ender is a 3 WAR player just by his defense. The poster is clearly trading Springer for Julio and Ender.. but adding JD Davis and Feliz in exchange for taking Salary in Neshek.. Depending on how much the Astros need better defense and OBP.. they might do that trade.

Personally I like the other Stros proposal with Gomez.. but to say Julio/Ender = Springer.. I just don't know about that.
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Agreed. I like Springer, but not for Julio and Ender without getting else anything in return. Yes, to get Springer without the Stros taking on salary we'd have to take back Feldman or Neshak in a deal. Obviously Neshak would be more valuable to us
 
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