Braves parting ways with Roger McDowell

50PoundHead said:
Looking at his body of work, I've always been as or more impressed with McDowell than I was with Mazzone. Mazzone had the luxury of working with three Hall of Famers (and a fat payroll) and for all the talk about guys who never missed starts due to injury, Avery, Millwood, and Smoltz are case in point where that was overblown. I don't Leo did all that well with young pitchers either. J.C. Bradbury and others will disagree with me, but I think Leo was always a tad overrated.
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For the most part, I agree - especially about Leo's abilities (or lack thereof) with progressing younger pitchers. However he did help make several successful reclamation projects as well- Jaret Wright is one who I think had something north of a 8 ERA when we picked him up off the waiver wire and Leo turned him into a middle of the rotation type. Wright was probably 27 or so when Leo helped him - so not young but not Burkett aged either (another whom Leo helped turn around IIRC).

I liked McDowell - especially with the bullpen arms. Sounds like the FO felt someone new could help the really young pitchers more and I'm fine with that - but I hope the PR machine leaves it at that.
 
ramadon101 said:
I'm fine with this so long as the Braves smear machine doesn't start pumping stories of how McDowell couldn't get along with X player or Y player. Let's just leave it at "we wanted a new voice" in the pitching coach's role.
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Well Bowman's article already stated his "tough love" approach.

Sucks because Jurrjens, Meds, Minor, Beachy were all awesome until they went down with injuries.

If Medlen, Beachy, Minor don't get hurt in 2014 we may not even fire Frank Wren... so eh.
 
ramadon101 said:
For the most part, I agree - especially about Leo's abilities (or lack thereof) with progressing younger pitchers. However he did help make several successful reclamation projects as well- Jaret Wright is one who I think had something north of a 8 ERA when we picked him up off the waiver wire and Leo turned him into a middle of the rotation type. Wright was probably 27 or so when Leo helped him - so not young but not Burkett aged either (another whom Leo helped turn around IIRC).

I liked McDowell - especially with the bullpen arms. Sounds like the FO felt someone new could help the really young pitchers more and I'm fine with that - but I hope the PR machine leaves it at that.
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I think Jaret Wright is a better example of Leo's reclamation abilities than Burkett. Burkett was in Atlanta two seasons and his first season wasn't all that great. He rebounded and pitched very well in his second season in Atlanta. Plus, Burkett had been a successful pitcher prior to coming to Atlanta.

I totally agree with you that I don't want to see ex-Braveitis run rampant.
 
This gives me reason to believe Bud Black will be the new manager. If his main focus as manager is working with the young pitchers he'll want a "Yes man" underneath him as the pitching coach that believes in his same philosophy. I think that's pretty fair and I don't have any problem with this. We've clearly stated young pitching is going to be our calling card.
 
McDowell seemed to be pretty much the best to me. I see this as a sign that we are not going with Snit. A new manager will want to bring in their own coaches.
 
for those of you upset by this.

just think about the guys who went down to figure things out. Blair end of season success is due to mechanical changes made in minors. Wisler was sent down to figure things out. I think this is going to be a great move for the Braves. Jose went down after a bad spring and came back up a better pitcher.
 
Don't like this at all. I get the feeling this isn't a baseball decision. It's a management bringing in their own guys decision. I don't like that at all.
 
This surprised me, but I agree with everyone that says this pretty much seals the deal with Black as the next manager.
 
dak said:
Looking much more likely that Bud Black will be the next manager. Maybe he want's to reunite with Darren Balsley as pitching coach.
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That was my interpretation as well. He'd want to bring in his own guy with similar philosophy in alignment.
 
dak said:
I like McDowell and think he will get another MLB job in short order. Maybe he's a better fit for a more veteran pitching staff though.

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Exact same thing said about Leo when Roger was hired.
 
50PoundHead said:
I think Jaret Wright is a better example of Leo's reclamation abilities than Burkett. Burkett was in Atlanta two seasons and his first season wasn't all that great. He rebounded and pitched very well in his second season in Atlanta. Plus, Burkett had been a successful pitcher prior to coming to Atlanta.

I totally agree with you that I don't want to see ex-Braveitis run rampant.
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Rudy Seanez, Chris Hammond and Darren Holmes were MLB scrap heap. Those reclamation projects were nothing short of remarkable. Remember at Scout, there used to be comments about "catching lightning in a bottle." It was by design. Not going to say that he was a total genius, but following the Johnny Sain school of pitching philosophy definitely produced results. The throwing regiment between starts had to have had an effect on keeping pitchers off the DL with exception of the unfortunate Smoltz, whose slider cooked his elbow more than anything else.

As for the 3 HOFers, Leo was the first to admit that it made him look a whole lot smarter. His book is essential reading. In the back, it contains a chart, comparing ERA of pitchers under him and under other pitching coaches. The figures are rather startling.

Yes, there were definitely issues with certain young pitchers. Spooneybarger and Marquis immediately spring to mind.
 
Knucksie said:
Rudy Seanez, Chris Hammond and Darren Holmes were MLB scrap heap. Those reclamation projects were nothing short of remarkable. Remember at Scout, there used to be comments about "catching lightning in a bottle." It was by design. Not going to say that he was a total genius, but following the Johnny Sain school of pitching philosophy definitely produced results. The throwing regiment between starts had to have had an effect on keeping pitchers off the DL with exception of the unfortunate Smoltz, whose slider cooked his elbow more than anything else.

As for the 3 HOFers, Leo was the first to admit that it made him look a whole lot smarter. His book is essential reading. In the back, it contains a chart, comparing ERA of pitchers under him and under other pitching coaches. The figures are rather startling.

Yes, there were definitely issues with certain young pitchers. Spooneybarger and Marquis immediately spring to mind.
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Every pitching coach has a reclamation project or two or three or five. McDowell got mileage out of guys like Jeff Bennett, Manny Acosta, Buddy Carlyle, Cristhian Martinez, and Chad Durbin. I think Leo was a very good pitching coach, but so was Roger.

As for the ERA differential, I just think there's a lot of cherry-picking. As I said in my first post, people point out Burkett's second year in Atlanta, but forget his first year as a Brave when his WHIP was > 1.5.
 
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