50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
In the whole scheme of things, that was a secondary reason Leo was let go. That was what was ladled out to the public.
Braves parting ways with Roger McDowell
- Thread starter UNCBlue012
- Start date
In the whole scheme of things, that was a secondary reason Leo was let go. That was what was ladled out to the public.
Millwood1Hitter
Anytime Now Frankie...
I'm torn on McDowell. I believe the guy is amongst the top of his profession. He's had a number of success stories, especially retread relievers that come here and have success. On the other hand the amount of arm injuries during his tenure and young pitchers not taking the next step we're somewhat concerning. Whether those are on McDowell directly or not that has yet to be seen, the injuries especially, and may have been just bad luck.
But with all the young pitchers coming up from the pipeline that need to realize their potential in order for the Bravrs to reach their potential, this just might be one of those scenarios where McDowell is as John Hart would say "the right guy at the wrong time" and that's no slight on Roger.
But in order to validate this move we need to find a viable replacement, and one most importantly that's going to help the young guns take the next steps in their career.
But be careful what you wish for, after years of many complaining how terrible Pendleton was as a hitting coach, he's was actually pretty decent and was a far better coach than his replacement in Parrish and that clown from Chicago.
But with all the young pitchers coming up from the pipeline that need to realize their potential in order for the Bravrs to reach their potential, this just might be one of those scenarios where McDowell is as John Hart would say "the right guy at the wrong time" and that's no slight on Roger.
But in order to validate this move we need to find a viable replacement, and one most importantly that's going to help the young guns take the next steps in their career.
But be careful what you wish for, after years of many complaining how terrible Pendleton was as a hitting coach, he's was actually pretty decent and was a far better coach than his replacement in Parrish and that clown from Chicago.
Interesting names to bring up. Not sure that fingers should be pointed but this would have constituted a very impressive rotation if all had reached potential and remained healthy. Now, it's looking back on wrecked careers.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
Would we not be better served with Snitker as manager and Bud Black as pitching coach?
Doubt Black would accept that. And I'm not really buying into the fact that the clubhouse will be in upheaval if Snitker isn't brought back as manager.
bravesfanforlife88
Well-known member
Hate to say it but I don't think we can discount Tommy Hanson out of that group either....
Not really sure what they have to do with Roger's "legacy" - at least on the surface, anyway.
JJ's problems began with his knee injury, much like Julio's blip when he got hit with that comebacker against the Mutts. Neither likely had much to do with McDowell's throwing program or "tough love approach".
I'm certainly not qualified enough to decide if they could be exactly the same, but I think 2014 was a lot like what happened with the Mutts this year - a perfect storm where a collection of great young Pitchers all went down at once. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. However, if enough evidence is eventually found that places that blame at Roger's feet, my guess is that Warthen will probably be blamed for what happened with Harvey, deGrom, and Matz in 2016.
I'm afraid the bigger issue here is that really good Pitching Coaches are all going to become dinosaurs soon, because they're going to have to be replaced with medical gurus. The fact that specialization has become so prevalent and these guys aren't trained to go more than 80-90 pitches renders the strategies involved with getting through a lineup even a third or (God forbid) fourth time useless. "Go cut it loose for 90 pitches and we'll finish it for you" has more or less become the rule, and I'm afraid the few "Aces" in the game today are likely going to be the last ones.
Sour grapes? Sure, to an extent. The thing is, I think a lot of people are going to find that this is going to be one of those areas where they wish the game didn't evolve in the long run. I'm not sure you can reverse this course now that it has started. When "Aces" are guys that can get through a lineup twice without allowing more than three runs, there aren't going to be many "heroes" on the mound any more. The fact that "Quality Starts" dictate a Pitcher's value as much (or more) than Wins or ERA will eventually change the game completely, and I'm not personally convinced it's going to be for the better.
One thing that has become pretty obvious though - you can't bring all these young Pitchers through the minors being developed following the new standards and then hand them to old-school guys when they get to the show - the approaches rarely jibe.
Coaches who can work with players on mechanics/strategy/pitch grip, etc. are still going to be very valuable. There is a lot more to throwing good pitches than 'just cut it loose'. It's not as though a pitching coach's main responsibility has been to decide how to attack a hitter the 3rd time you've seen him.
Still afraid we're headed towards far fewer "baseball people" and far more medical people - and that's a shame IMO.
I think you want a proper balance. I don't think you want health at the expense of a good approach or a good approach at the expense of health. You would hope your pitching coach is teaching good mechanics that provide you with both. Someone whose approach is purely medical will advise your coach to stop pitching altogether because throwing a baseball is not good for the health of your arm.