GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Too many of those AZ middle infielders don't hit and never will. Four A types. They need to figure out who can hit as well as defend and discard the rest.
Braves Should Avoid Becoming Diamondbacks
- Thread starter thewupk
- Start date
Too many of those AZ middle infielders don't hit and never will. Four A types. They need to figure out who can hit as well as defend and discard the rest.
Sale doesn't make us a contender, especially considering we'd almost certainly give up major league value to get him.
You need guys who are LD/GB hitters in Arizona with speed. I personally believe that is the best mix in that ballpark.
The point made was that we would empty the farm signalling that nobody on the current major league roster would be traded for him. At least that was what I inferred from his post. I could be wrong about that though.
I still don't see how we aren't a contendor with Sale. I know the projections and what they predict but that is not set in stone. The amount of innings in that rotation would drastically help our bullpen and I don't expect the offense to decline to middle of the pact. It won't be the best in the NL but its a top 5 offense in the league if you ask me.
It could be a good offense. But we're still sticking it with guys like Inciarte, Flowers, Garcia, and Kemp, and those guys have all been mediocre at best in the recent past. So it's really hard to look at our offense and feel confident it will be very good. Again, it could be, as it was to end last year, or we could see regression and then, whoops.
When I say 'contender,' I mean we're making the playoffs and are one of a handful of teams competing for a title. With Sale, I think we move up just into 'competing for a playoff spot' territory, where a whole bunch of teams are.
Disagree on Inciarte. He has been good his whole major league career. I don't expect that to stop I just don't expect him to play at the MVP level we saw int he second half last year.
When it comes to Kemp I think its all about motivation. The talent is there and since power was our biggest need prior to his arrival I think we should all be thrilled with he did once he came over. That walk rate going up is a good indicator. This is a guy with a track record of well above average offense. Now the defense is a concern but the analtyics on how it weighs down his overall production is way overboard for my liking. I saw all the misplays last year but to say he was basically a scratch contributor as some have hinted here (not you necessarily) is a joke to me.
Agree on Garcia and Flowers but we aren't relying on them to be key contributors. That is the difference between having a top 5 offense in the NL to having the best. That is why I don't think we are at the top. We can't expect to have a stud at every position but the way it shakes out right now our top 5 is going to be really good and no black holes in the lineup from 6-8. Thats important.
If the Braves do make the playoffs with Sale they all of a sudden become a better playoff team than regular season team becuase of the amount of high octane arms in the pen and the fact that our number 1 would be as good as anyone elses.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I don't think that is a top five rotation, sorry.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
He was saying in innings pitched. And I think those five are well over 1,000 innings for '16.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Offensively, Inciarte has not been "mediocre at best." For that matter, neither has Kemp.
I'd say Inciarte is extremely likely to OBP .350 and Kemp is a lead-pipe lock for 30 and 100 (or .850 OPS, or whatever metric you prefer, wRC+ or wOBA).
No it wouldn't be a bottom 5 farm but if you aren't sending Ender or Swanson to get him then it's going to be multiple guys in our top 10. It's another Tex trade essentially. And even then it likely pushes the Braves to 80+ wins going into the season. For me to be ok with a trade like that the Braves would already need to be an 85 win team with Sale pushing them over the edge.
Your rotation is a good example of what I am talking about. What happens to it in 2018 when Colon and Dickey are likely no longer here. They are 40+ and here on one year deals (with an option for one of them). Instead of replacing them with likely minor leaguers we will then need to go another route because they would of been traded off to get Sale and a 3B.
What? Ender's last 3 years. 86, 100, 97 WRC+. Career WRC+ 95. That screams average offensively. Kemp has been at 108 and 109 the previous two years. So while not average at best it's still not great for someone who is defensively challenged. I will say there is hope Kemp is the hitter he was with the Braves going forward and if that's the case then that would tremendously. But let's not act like Kemp is a guaranteed force from his early LA days.
Perfect Cell
Lynchburg Prospect
We need more than Sale, I liked the Colon and Dickie deals but i like those deals as stop gaps for the youth movement that we can then if anything trade for more prospects. not as vital cogs for a playoff team. We need hitting at C/2B/3B and i dont trust Nick Markakis or Matt Kemp. ( I like Ender tons and Mallex Smith has potential) We are missing way too much. We are doing well with the drafting but we need to still be patient. The Astros probably took steps back thinking they were there and look at how they did this year after making a teixera type trade for a closer.
We need to be patient let the youth develop, not sign anybody in 2016 for too much long term contracts, and in 2017 trade veterans for prospects. Then spend more money in a better free agent pool and plan on being wild card competetive in 2018.
The Braves are doing their best to buy another year for the pitchers on the farm.
IMO Fried only needs 1 more year at most to get to the big leagues. Heck, if he continues to do what he did last year at AA then he is a potential option in July but I doubt the Braves push him that much 2 years from surgery.
To get Sale I think the Braves can get creative with Inciarte and flip him for prospects in a 3 way deal. I am a believer in Mallex and think he can be more dynamic offensively while not as good defensively.
I guess that fundamental difference in our arguments is where we see the potential win total for the team. I do not believe they are as far away from the playoffs as you do. Especially after the Rodriguez signing.
Sale is more than just 2017 though. It creates more certainty moving forward and allows the Braves to be more aggressive at other areas to improve the team. Its not often you are going to get an opportunity at a TOR pitcher on the right side of 30 for a very reasonable contract. Braves wanted Lester in the worst way but realized the timing was wrong. This timing makes much more sense IMO.
Perfect Cell
Lynchburg Prospect
IF sale cost us something like Blair/Smith/random A prospect id be all for it. We probably have room for just smith or ender but its not what it will cost us. I dont want to trade Albies. but its gonna cost us Ender/Albies/2 top pitchers at least as a starter
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
MLB.com Castrovince has a column that supposes a black Friday deal of: Sale to the Braves for Albies, Newcomb, Riley, Wisler and Sims.
Anybody down with that?
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
A lot of talent, but that is a fair price and one I would be willing to pay. I hate giving up on Newk and Ozzie though.. but to get Sale it will cost that.. wonder if we could swap Mallex/Ender for any of those pieces.
Something like Mallex/Ozzie/Wisler/Sims/Riley --it might take Ender instead of Mallex.