Braves sign Freeman to 8 year 135M deal! *Updated to 135m*

BremanFan88 said:
I'm not sure where the Jason isn't consistent stuff comes from. He had one bad year in 2011 because of injuries. He still walked more and k'd less than a typical Freeman year and stll got a WAR of 2 out of it. Last year was the first time Freddie went over 1.8. The wRC+'s were already posted so no need to show it again. There seems to be a ton of faith that FF is going to maintain that .371 BABip and I wonder if people think CJ is going to maintain his as well.

I guess if you want to argue who's the better hitter after Freddie just had what might very well be his career year(hope not though) then go ahead but there's a pretty big gap between these two when it comes to making an impact day in and day out. Heyward is well worth the money Freddie got and more. Also Simmons is a beast and I hope we lock him up soon.
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Maybe it comes from the fact that Heyward has been very streaky in his career as a hitter which is why his raw numbers look bad until you dig deeper and see how good he has really been.

April 5-May 30, 2010 - .301/.421/.506 (1.017)
May 31-July 18, 2010 - .179/.281/.232 (.513)
July 20-July 25, 2010 - .538/.613/.615 (1.228)
July 27-August 20, 2010 - .171/.289/.316 (.605)
August 21-October 3, 2010 - .333/.457/.520 (.997)

I don't feel like going through the other years and doing the same thing. But that's where the talk comes from about Heyward being inconsistent.
 
AUTiger7222 said:
Maybe it comes from the fact that Heyward has been very streaky in his career as a hitter which is why his raw numbers look bad until you dig deeper and see how good he has really been.

April 5-May 30, 2010 - .301/.421/.506 (1.017)
May 31-July 18, 2010 - .179/.281/.232 (.513)
July 20-July 25, 2010 - .538/.613/.615 (1.228)
July 27-August 20, 2010 - .171/.289/.316 (.605)
August 21-October 3, 2010 - .333/.457/.520 (.997)

I don't feel like going through the other years and doing the same thing. But that's where the talk comes from about Heyward being inconsistent.
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So being streaky is considered inconsistent now? I would venture a guess that most players are streaky/inconsistent. Also if the end results are the same does it really matter how you got there? The thing about Jason is that when he "slumps" as a "hitter" he still gets on base and plays golden defense.
 
BremanFan88 said:
So being streaky is considered inconsistent now? I would venture a guess that most players are streaky/inconsistent. Also if the end results are the same does it really matter how you got there? The thing about Jason is that when he "slumps" as a "hitter" he still gets on base and plays golden defense.
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Yes. Streaky and inconsistent, by definition, mean the same thing. Yes, most hitters are streaky/inconsistent over the course of a season. But there are some people here and many more in the real world that don't have a clue what OPS, OPS+, wRC+, ect. means. They just see a season average of .259 or whatever and claim that Jason Heyward is a bad hitter. Especially when his season averages for his career have been .277, 227, .269 and .254. I'm not saying I'm one of those people because I know how to dig into the statistics and see what Jason Heyward's true value is to the Braves. But the general fan doesn't. The general fan just looks at the raw numbers (average, homeruns, rbis, ect.) and claim that Heyward is an overhyped, average player.
 
BremanFan88 said:
So being streaky is considered inconsistent now? I would venture a guess that most players are streaky/inconsistent. Also if the end results are the same does it really matter how you got there? The thing about Jason is that when he "slumps" as a "hitter" he still gets on base and plays golden defense.
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So true,

For fun, compare Jason's 2012 to Freddie's by month

April - .783
May - .705
June - 1.053
July - .800
August - .855
Sept - .711

Freddie

April - .791
May - .768
June - .697
July - .954
August - .843
Sept - .694

45900258.jpg
 
zitothebrave said:
So true,

For fun, compare Jason's 2012 to Freddie's by month

April - .783
May - .705
June - 1.053
July - .800
August - .855
Sept - .711

Freddie

April - .791
May - .768
June - .697
July - .954
August - .843
Sept - .694

45900258.jpg
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So it's fair to use Freddie's worst season and compare it to Heyward's 2nd best season?
 
zitothebrave said:
So true,

For fun, compare Jason's 2012 to Freddie's by month

April - .783
May - .705
June - 1.053
July - .800
August - .855
Sept - .711

Freddie

April - .791
May - .768
June - .697
July - .954
August - .843
Sept - .694

45900258.jpg
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I was just looking into that. Yes Freddie had a super consistent 2013 but his other years look just like Jason's so we've determined that 2013 is what Freddie will be? Seems like perception has overtaken reality.
 
AUTiger7222 said:
So it's fair to use Freddie's worst season and compare it to Heyward's 2nd best season?
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You can use all their seasons. Both players are traditionally "streaky". Also it's funny how in 2012 Jason had a wRC+ of 121 and in 2013 he had a 120. Yet they are viewed as a "good" year and a "bad" year.
 
zitothebrave said:
Care to look at Freddie's 2011? He was fairly consistent in 2013, but odds are he won't be in 2014. You don't know of course but most hitters aren't consistent.
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I know Freddie had a similar trend in 2011. I never said Freddie wasn't going to have the same kind of seasons as Heyward has had in his career as far as inconsistency month to month. Breman asked a question and I asked his question. Don't put me into the group that is a Heyward hater because I'm not. I have done nothing but defend Heyward from day 1.
 
BremanFan88 said:
You can use all their seasons. Both players are traditionally "streaky". Also it's funny how in 2012 Jason had a wRC+ of 121 and in 2013 he had a 120. Yet they are viewed as a "good" year and a "bad" year.
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Did you miss the other post I made explaining why that is the case?
 
AUTiger7222 said:
I know Freddie had a similar trend in 2011. I never said Freddie wasn't going to have the same kind of seasons as Heyward has had in his career as far as inconsistency month to month. Breman asked a question and I asked his question. Don't put me into the group that is a Heyward hater because I'm not. I have done nothing but defend Heyward from day 1.
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Never called you a Heyward hater, but I present facts, whether you're playing devils advocate or a true believer.
 
zitothebrave said:
Never called you a Heyward hater, but I present facts, whether you're playing devils advocate or a true believer.
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I was just explaining that most baseball fans only look at average, homeruns and rbis when judging hitters. They see that Heyward went from a .269 average with 27 homeruns in 2012 to a .254 average with only 14 homeruns in 2013 and claim that Heyward was good in 2012 and bad in 2013. Despite the fact that wRC+ tells us that Heyward was the same player in both years as evident by his 121 wRC+ in 2012 and 120 wRC+ in 2013. If you polled 100 people on the street that claim to be big baseball fans and asked them what wRC+ is, how many do you think would know the answer? 5% if that many? But they can tell you all about average, homeruns and rbis. That was the point I was making.
 
AUTiger7222 said:
I was just explaining that most baseball fans only look at average, homeruns and rbis when judging hitters. They see that Heyward went from a .269 average with 27 homeruns in 2012 to a .254 average with only 14 homeruns in 2013 and claim that Heyward was good in 2012 and bad in 2013. Despite the fact that wRC+ tells us that Heyward was the same player in both years as evident by his 121 wRC+ in 2012 and 120 wRC+ in 2013. If you polled 100 people on the street that claim to be big baseball fans and asked them what wRC+ is, how many do you think would know the answer? 5% if that many? But they can tell you all about average, homeruns and rbis. That was the point I was making.
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Which only proves most fans are clueless
 
thewupk said:
He also had a very high BABIP in 2013 that's not likely sustainable.
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I don't know, Freeman always hits for a high average and even as prospect was projected to be the type of hitter that competes for batting titles.

I think it's entirely likely Freeman maintains a BABIP much higher than league average, especially during his peak yrs (which he is entering).
 
Carp said:
I don't know, Freeman always hits for a high average and even as prospect was projected to be the type of hitter that competes for batting titles.
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False.

Shanks I believe said he would contend for batting titles. Not any projection.

Freeman will hit for a high average,.371 BABIP is basically impossible to maintain. In the history of baseball, only 4 players had a career BABIP over .370. He won't stay at that level. He'll be high for sure, just like Chris Johnson, but last year he was lucky to a degree.
 
zitothebrave said:
False.

Shanks I believe said he would contend for batting titles. Not any projection.

Freeman will hit for a high average,.371 BABIP is basically impossible to maintain. In the history of baseball, only 4 players had a career BABIP over .370. He won't stay at that level. He'll be high for sure, just like Chris Johnson, but last year he was lucky to a degree.
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To counteract though I believe that his BB/KK% will improve as well as his power. I just dont' get why people are sure that last year was an aberration for Freeman.
 
Of course he isn't going to average a .370 BABIP over his career, and I never said he would. But he should continue to maintain a better than average BABIP throughout his career. Hitters, like Freeman, who show a skill set to hit .300 consistently are always going to have a better than average BABIP. And it would not be surprising if, during his peak yrs, Freeman replicated his 2013 numbers.

Will Clark, Mark Grace, and Sean Casey tend to be Freeman's most favorable comps. All of these guys maintained better than average BABIP's for most of their career.
 
Carp said:
Of course he isn't going to average a .370 BABIP, and I never said he would. But he should continue to maintain a better than average BABIP throughout his career. And it would not be surprising if, during his peak yrs, he replicated his 2013 numbers.
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Agreed.
 
Carp said:
Of course he isn't going to average a .370 BABIP over his career, and I never said he would. But he should continue to maintain a better than average BABIP throughout his career. Hitters, like Freeman, who show a skill set to hit .300 consistently are always going to have a better than average BABIP. And it would not be surprising if, during his peak yrs, Freeman replicated his 2013 numbers.

Will Clark, Mark Grace, and Sean Casey tend to be Freeman's most favorable comps. All of these guys maintained better than average BABIP's for most of their career.
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I don't think I've ever said Freddie wouldn't hit for higher than average BABIP did I? .370 isn't higher than average it's what guys like Mike Trout put up who're faster than sin. Or Jeter who has much better spray patters.
 
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