Braves sign Gavin Floyd 1 yr 4M + incentives

[yeezus]

Fine, I'll bite. I would have actually FIXED some of the areas of need rather than made them worse.

Chavez should have been signed rather than Floyd AND Gamel. Chavez would have provided LHed power off the bench, plus an insurance policy against CJ regressing and Freeman getting hurt.

I would have traded for Kendrick. Failing that I would go into the season with the current jumble of mediocrity currently in place. It is obvious nobody wanted Uggla for any price, so it appears trading him is impossible.

I would not have signed Ventersd OR EOF. Why sign these guys that aren't healthy? Sign a LHer for the pen that can actually break camp with the club.

I also actually do my job and get involved in the Fister sweepstakes. There is no way Wren did his due diligence while missing that opportunity.

Then I'd wait until late in the offseason when one of the many setup men on the FA market are sitting around to be signed for half price. If a starter is also sitting there without a home I snatch him up too.

Do you know what Chavez is going to get? I would have liked him, too. But, personally, I find Floyd to be a higher upside signing.

What would you have traded for Kendrick? Anything they wanted? A mid-payroll team should not trade young players with good potential (esp. pitchers) for older, more expensive players.

What LH would you have signed? Boone Logan for 5.5 per? JP Howell and the contract he got? Wren has to take some risks. I think his risks have been good and calculated.

The Fister thing is curious, but obviously a lot of teams would have liked to jump at that deal. It seemed to have happened quickly. Detroit got fleeced, but a lot of other GMs "didn't do their job," I guess.

 

[MadduxFanII]

In the 22 years I've been a Braves fan, I've seen us fall in the playoffs with just about every sort of team. We've lost with rotations stuffed with aces and shaky bullpens. We've lost with decent rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding pitching staffs and poor offenses. We've lost with fair pitching staffs and outstanding offenses. We've lost with offenses that hit the ball out of the park and with offenses that drew lots of walks and offenses that struck out a ton and offenses that made a ton of contact and offenses that scored lots of runs and offenses that scuffled. We've lost with great defenses and average defenses and mediocre defenses and poor defenses.

We've had great, 100+ win teams fall in the LDS (2002, 2003). We've had extraordinary, amazing teams fall in the LCS (1993, 1998). We've lost with a newly minted Hall of Fame manager. We've lost with teams assembled by a future Hall of Fame executive.

The lesson here is simple: the only thing you can do to improve your chances in October is to improve your team overall, and even then you're just making a marginal change in your odds. Since there are rarely mediocre teams in the playoffs (that .500 Padres team a few years ago notwithstanding), a postseason series is usually a battle between two reasonably good teams. And when two reasonably good teams play five games, picking the one that's going to win three games is largely just a matter of guess work.

There's no magic October Formula(TM). You want top-notch, shutdown aces? Been there, done that, witnessed the heartbreak. My namesake headed our rotation for a decade and is a couple months away from being the least controversial Hall of Famer in recent memory. One title from him. And he was backed by what was arguably the greatest rotation in the history of the game.

You want David Price? Sure, we all do. He's a great pitcher. And since he became a starter, Tampa has never advanced beyond the LDS.

In fact, let's go big and give up the farm for Clayton Kershaw. He'll guarantee a deep postseason run. Except since becoming a starter for LA, the Dodgers are 2-2 in his postseason series and he has a 1-3 record and a 4.23 ERA.

Put simply, there's nothing you can do in the off-season that will significantly affect your odds of winning a postseason series, save improving your team to the point where you can reasonably expect to make a postseason series. If you're already in that position, then you, as a general manager, just have to accept that what happens in October is out of your hands, unless you're capable of assembling a true, 1998 Yankees-esque juggernaut.

 

[nsacpi]

Fine, I'll bite. I would have actually FIXED some of the areas of need rather than made them worse.

Chavez should have been signed rather than Floyd AND Gamel. Chavez would have provided LHed power off the bench, plus an insurance policy against CJ regressing and Freeman getting hurt.

I would have traded for Kendrick. Failing that I would go into the season with the current jumble of mediocrity currently in place. It is obvious nobody wanted Uggla for any price, so it appears trading him is impossible.

I would not have signed Ventersd OR EOF. Why sign these guys that aren't healthy? Sign a LHer for the pen that can actually break camp with the club.

I also actually do my job and get involved in the Fister sweepstakes. There is no way Wren did his due diligence while missing that opportunity.

Then I'd wait until late in the offseason when one of the many setup men on the FA market are sitting around to be signed for half price. If a starter is also sitting there without a home I snatch him up too.

I agree with some of your points. I would take sending resources on Chavez over signing Floyd and Gamels. But I find it hard to be overly critical of Wren for not signing Chavez. The reason for this is we simply don't know how much Chavez values playing in Arizona where he has his house. For some players this is very important. Chavez might not really available as long as the Diamondbacks make an offer he regards as fair.

Similarly, while I agree that Kendrick would be a good trade target I can't get exercised over not getting him because we simply don't know the price. Now if he had been traded to some other team for peanuts I would have thought Wren missed an opportunity. The only transaction this off-season that had that element to it was the Fister trade (and even that one is mysterious in terms of whether Detroit cast a wide net in trying to find trade partners).

 

[Enscheff]

Do you know what Chavez is going to get? I would have liked him, too. But, personally, I find Floyd to be a higher upside signing.

What would you have traded for Kendrick? Anything they wanted? A mid-payroll team should not trade young players with good potential (esp. pitchers) for older, more expensive players.

What LH would you have signed? Boone Logan for 5.5 per? JP Howell and the contract he got? Wren has to take some risks. I think his risks have been good and calculated.

The Fister thing is curious, but obviously a lot of teams would have liked to jump at that deal. It seemed to have happened quickly. Detroit got fleeced, but a lot of other GMs "didn't do their job," I guess.

I would have traded anyone not on the MLB roster and not named Sims for Kendrick. If they wanted CB there wouldn't have been much else going along with him.

How about Thornton who is about to sign for $7M over 2 years? Wouldn't you rather have him in the pen NOW rather than waiting for Venters and EOF to be healthy? There is talk of Wren giving EOF more than Thorton is making per year...ludicrous!

I don't know what Chavez will cost, but I bet he could have been had for Gamel + Floyd money, and he would actually suit up and play for the Braves. Floyd MIGHT make 20 starts, and Gamel MIGHT not even make it out of AAA.

The point is the Braves had 4 areas of need, and Wren has fixed none of them while wasting all available monetary resources. I may not have been able to fix all 4 areas, but you can bet your ass I would have fixed 2-3 of them properly and then went with internal options as my plan b for the areas I couldn't solve. I would NOT have wasted all my free cash and came away with more question marks than answers.

 

[Enscheff]

I agree with some of your points. I would take sending resources on Chavez over signing Floyd and Gamels. But I find it hard to be overly critical of Wren for not signing Chavez. The reason for this is we simply don't know how much Chavez values playing in Arizona where he has his house. For some players this is very important. Chavez might not really available as long as the Diamondbacks make an offer he regards as fair.

Similarly, while I agree that Kendrick would be a good trade target I can't get exercised over not getting him because we simply don't know the price. Now if he had been traded to some other team for peanuts I would have thought Wren missed an opportunity. The only transaction this off-season that had that element to it was the Fister trade (and even that one is mysterious in terms of whether Detroit cast a wide net in trying to find trade partners).

There are other players that could have helped on the bench. A guy that could play CF would have been equally useful to keep Schafer off the team.

Fact of the matter is Wren solved ZERO of the issues this team had this offseason. None.

 

[Heyward]

If he pitches well enough maybe and thats a BIG maybe. I hope we learned our lesson with Huddy.

But next year FA starting pitchers is pretty good.

We're not gonna spend much in FA on pitchers, just not the Braves morale.

Especially with a lot of younger guys ready in the coming years.

 

[nsacpi]

There are other players that could have helped on the bench. A guy that could play CF would have been equally useful to keep Schafer off the team.

Fact of the matter is Wren solved ZERO of the issues this team had this offseason. None.

There I disagree. I know you have a low opinion of Schafer. But I don't see center as a big problem requiring an external solution. BJ is likely to rebound somewhat. If not Heyward can play center, which brings into play corner outfielders (Terdoslavich, Constanza) as potential solutions. And then we have a couple other guys who can play center, Schafer and Cunningham.

I also don't think Wren has done nothing this off-season. I see value in both bringing back Venters and signing Floyd. There are a couple other under-the-radar signings (Luis Vasquez and Yunesky Maya) that I like as well. We all like the splashy moves like the Justin Upton trade. But assembling a winning team also requires a constant series of little moves. Most of them don't pan out, but some turn out to be quite important.

 

[gcbraves]

In the 22 years I've been a Braves fan, I've seen us fall in the playoffs with just about every sort of team. We've lost with rotations stuffed with aces and shaky bullpens. We've lost with decent rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding pitching staffs and poor offenses. We've lost with fair pitching staffs and outstanding offenses. We've lost with offenses that hit the ball out of the park and with offenses that drew lots of walks and offenses that struck out a ton and offenses that made a ton of contact and offenses that scored lots of runs and offenses that scuffled. We've lost with great defenses and average defenses and mediocre defenses and poor defenses.

We've had great, 100+ win teams fall in the LDS (2002, 2003). We've had extraordinary, amazing teams fall in the LCS (1993, 1998). We've lost with a newly minted Hall of Fame manager. We've lost with teams assembled by a future Hall of Fame executive.

The lesson here is simple: the only thing you can do to improve your chances in October is to improve your team overall, and even then you're just making a marginal change in your odds. Since there are rarely mediocre teams in the playoffs (that .500 Padres team a few years notwithstanding), a postseason series is usually a battle between two reasonably good teams. And when two reasonably good teams play five games, picking the one that's going to win three games is largely just a matter of guess work.

There's no magic October Formula(TM). You want top-notch, shutdown aces? Been there, done that, witnessed the heartbreak. My namesake headed our rotation for a decade and is a couple months away from being the least controversial Hall of Famer in recent memory. One title from him. And he was backed by what was arguably the greatest rotation in the history of the game.

You want David Price? Sure, we all do. He's a great pitcher. And since he became a starter, Tampa has never advanced beyond the LDS.

In fact, let's go big and give up the farm for Clayton Kershaw. He'll guarantee a deep postseason run. Except since becoming a starter for LA, the Dodgers are 2-2 in his postseason series and he has 1-3 record and a 4.23 ERA.

Put simply, there's nothing you can do in the off-season that will significantly affect your odds of winning a postseason series, save improving your team to the point where you can reasonably expect to make a postseason series. If you're already in that position, then you, as a general manager, just have to accept that what happens in October is out of your hands, unless you're capable of assembling a true, 1998 Yankees-esque juggernaut.

One of the greatest posts I have ever read, IMO. Wish I had written it!

 

[thethe]

I applaud Wren for not making any big moves. All the talent we need to win a world series is already on the team. Making moves just for the appearance of them is just foolish. There is no way BJ is going to be that bad next year. There is no way that any second baseman we put out there will be as awful as Uggla last year. Can Heyward possibly get two more freak injuries next year? The rotation is young, heck the WHOLE DAMN TEAM is young. I just don't see why Wren should be doing anything.

 

[Enscheff]

There I disagree. I know you have a low opinion of Schafer. But I don't see center as a big problem requiring an external solution. BJ is likely to rebound somewhat. If not Heyward can play center, which brings into play corner outfielders (Terdoslavich, Constanza) as potential solutions. And then we have a couple other guys who can play center, Schafer and Cunningham.

I also don't think Wren has done nothing this off-season. I see value in both bringing back Venters and signing Floyd. There are a couple other under-the-radar signings (Luis Vasquez and Yunesky Maya) that I like as well. We all like the splashy moves like the Justin Upton trade. But assembling a winning team also requires a constant series of little moves. Most of them don't pan out, but some turn out to be quite important.

I meant a bench bat that can play CF, not someone to replace BJ. If he doesn't bounce back the Braves are in big trouble. The Braves are going to start losing their cheap offensive contributors that covered up BJ's suckfest season when they leave as FAs, and having money tied up in a black hole CFer is really going to hurt.

 

[Heyward]

Agree with others.

What do we really NEED to do.

The cost of Price or JS is deep, Theo and Jed most likely want at least one of Sims/Minor/Julio for JS i would guess. And more.

Price probably two of them.

Chavez would be great, but no one knows if he just wants to stay with Arizona.

I would like Kendrick too but at what cost?

To the LH RP, Howell and Logan both got pretty big contracts.

SP wise, there is no reason to spend bank on one.

And im just not sure what more we could do.

And yes, the playoffs are a freaking crapshoot, once you get in, anything can happen.

Minor or Julio could develop into an ace, or some hitters could go nuts.

Venters and EOF are risks if we bring back EOF, but given the contracts others got, i dont mind it.

Im just not sure what Wren should do.

I dont see 4 HUGE holes.

I see 1-2.

 

[nsacpi]

The other issue that needs to be acknowledged is the 2015 budget crunch, which is laid out in another thread. This is putting Wren in a position where there is a strong preference to bring in players on a one-year deal. This is not necessarily a bad thing if it keeps us away from Boone Logan or even Matt Thornton-type deals.

I actually like the strategy of signing or bringing back some guys who are coming off TJ surgery. We want our best team to be out there in September and October, not necessarily in April and May.

 

[Heyward]

I meant a bench bat that can play CF, not someone to replace BJ. If he doesn't bounce back the Braves are in big trouble. The Braves are going to start losing their cheap offensive contributors that covered up BJ's suckfest season when they leave as FAs, and having money tied up in a black hole CFer is really going to hurt.

1- Uggla's deal is off the books in a few years when it's time to pay some of the younger players.

2- It takes two to tango, it's already been reported they tried to sign some of them to extensions but nothing happened.

So thats a load of crap.

BJ's deal wont affect that unless all of them command 15-20 million a year.

 

[JohnAdcox]

In the 22 years I've been a Braves fan, I've seen us fall in the playoffs with just about every sort of team. We've lost with rotations stuffed with aces and shaky bullpens. We've lost with decent rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding pitching staffs and poor offenses. We've lost with fair pitching staffs and outstanding offenses. We've lost with offenses that hit the ball out of the park and with offenses that drew lots of walks and offenses that struck out a ton and offenses that made a ton of contact and offenses that scored lots of runs and offenses that scuffled. We've lost with great defenses and average defenses and mediocre defenses and poor defenses.

We've had great, 100+ win teams fall in the LDS (2002, 2003). We've had extraordinary, amazing teams fall in the LCS (1993, 1998). We've lost with a newly minted Hall of Fame manager. We've lost with teams assembled by a future Hall of Fame executive.

The lesson here is simple: the only thing you can do to improve your chances in October is to improve your team overall, and even then you're just making a marginal change in your odds. Since there are rarely mediocre teams in the playoffs (that .500 Padres team a few years ago notwithstanding), a postseason series is usually a battle between two reasonably good teams. And when two reasonably good teams play five games, picking the one that's going to win three games is largely just a matter of guess work.

There's no magic October Formula(TM). You want top-notch, shutdown aces? Been there, done that, witnessed the heartbreak. My namesake headed our rotation for a decade and is a couple months away from being the least controversial Hall of Famer in recent memory. One title from him. And he was backed by what was arguably the greatest rotation in the history of the game.

You want David Price? Sure, we all do. He's a great pitcher. And since he became a starter, Tampa has never advanced beyond the LDS.

In fact, let's go big and give up the farm for Clayton Kershaw. He'll guarantee a deep postseason run. Except since becoming a starter for LA, the Dodgers are 2-2 in his postseason series and he has a 1-3 record and a 4.23 ERA.

Put simply, there's nothing you can do in the off-season that will significantly affect your odds of winning a postseason series, save improving your team to the point where you can reasonably expect to make a postseason series. If you're already in that position, then you, as a general manager, just have to accept that what happens in October is out of your hands, unless you're capable of assembling a true, 1998 Yankees-esque juggernaut.

No more calls. We have a winner. No one ever needs to post again. This will never, ever be topped.

 

[GovClintonTyree]

In the 22 years I've been a Braves fan, I've seen us fall in the playoffs with just about every sort of team. We've lost with rotations stuffed with aces and shaky bullpens. We've lost with decent rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding pitching staffs and poor offenses. We've lost with fair pitching staffs and outstanding offenses. We've lost with offenses that hit the ball out of the park and with offenses that drew lots of walks and offenses that struck out a ton and offenses that made a ton of contact and offenses that scored lots of runs and offenses that scuffled. We've lost with great defenses and average defenses and mediocre defenses and poor defenses.

We've had great, 100+ win teams fall in the LDS (2002, 2003). We've had extraordinary, amazing teams fall in the LCS (1993, 1998). We've lost with a newly minted Hall of Fame manager. We've lost with teams assembled by a future Hall of Fame executive.

The lesson here is simple: the only thing you can do to improve your chances in October is to improve your team overall, and even then you're just making a marginal change in your odds. Since there are rarely mediocre teams in the playoffs (that .500 Padres team a few years ago notwithstanding), a postseason series is usually a battle between two reasonably good teams. And when two reasonably good teams play five games, picking the one that's going to win three games is largely just a matter of guess work.

There's no magic October Formula(TM). You want top-notch, shutdown aces? Been there, done that, witnessed the heartbreak. My namesake headed our rotation for a decade and is a couple months away from being the least controversial Hall of Famer in recent memory. One title from him. And he was backed by what was arguably the greatest rotation in the history of the game.

You want David Price? Sure, we all do. He's a great pitcher. And since he became a starter, Tampa has never advanced beyond the LDS.

In fact, let's go big and give up the farm for Clayton Kershaw. He'll guarantee a deep postseason run. Except since becoming a starter for LA, the Dodgers are 2-2 in his postseason series and he has a 1-3 record and a 4.23 ERA.

Put simply, there's nothing you can do in the off-season that will significantly affect your odds of winning a postseason series, save improving your team to the point where you can reasonably expect to make a postseason series. If you're already in that position, then you, as a general manager, just have to accept that what happens in October is out of your hands, unless you're capable of assembling a true, 1998 Yankees-esque juggernaut.

Nails it.

I remember Schuerholz taking Gary Sheffield out for lunch after The Kerry Wood game/season and asking if, given Shef's World Series experience, he (Schuerholz) was doing something wrong. Shef said, no, man, it's just a crapshoot.

After the last 25 years, we're due some good karma.

 

[Enscheff]

The other issue that needs to be acknowledged is the 2015 budget crunch, which is laid out in another thread. This is putting Wren in a position where there is a strong preference to bring in players on a one-year deal. This is not necessarily a bad thing if it keeps us away from Boone Logan or even Matt Thornton-type deals.

I actually like the strategy of signing or bringing back some guys who are coming off TJ surgery. We want our best team to be out there in September and October, not necessarily in April and May.

You know as well as anyone that Medlen and Kimbrel are probably gone next offseason, shaving $20M off that list. Sims or Hale will likely be ready to step into the rotation, and there is no way the Braves are paying a closer $11M for 60 innings, no matter how dominant those innings may be.

 

[nsacpi]

You know as well as anyone that Medlen and Kimbrel are probably gone next offseason, shaving $20M off that list. Sims or Hale will likely be ready to step into the rotation, and there is no way the Braves are paying a closer $11M for 60 innings, no matter how dominant those innings may be.

Might happen. I think it is more likely we keep Kimbrel for year five. I don't see us paying him $14M or whatever for year six. Hale profiles more as a reliever but he's got an outside chance as a starter. Sims will probably not zip through the system that fast. I think he will join the rotation in 2016.

 

[NinersSBChamps]

I applaud Wren for not making any big moves. All the talent we need to win a world series is already on the team. Making moves just for the appearance of them is just foolish. There is no way BJ is going to be that bad next year. There is no way that any second baseman we put out there will be as awful as Uggla last year. Can Heyward possibly get two more freak injuries next year? The rotation is young, heck the WHOLE DAMN TEAM is young. I just don't see why Wren should be doing anything.

Why can't BJ be awful again? Same with Uggla. The whole "if" factor for the Braves has gotten old. If so and so rebounds from last season....

Once again there are too many "what if" scenarios with the Braves heading into the season.

CF, 2B, C, and back end rotation are all areas of concern.

 

[gtcway]

In the 22 years I've been a Braves fan, I've seen us fall in the playoffs with just about every sort of team. We've lost with rotations stuffed with aces and shaky bullpens. We've lost with decent rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding rotations and outstanding bullpens. We've lost with outstanding pitching staffs and poor offenses. We've lost with fair pitching staffs and outstanding offenses. We've lost with offenses that hit the ball out of the park and with offenses that drew lots of walks and offenses that struck out a ton and offenses that made a ton of contact and offenses that scored lots of runs and offenses that scuffled. We've lost with great defenses and average defenses and mediocre defenses and poor defenses.

We've had great, 100+ win teams fall in the LDS (2002, 2003). We've had extraordinary, amazing teams fall in the LCS (1993, 1998). We've lost with a newly minted Hall of Fame manager. We've lost with teams assembled by a future Hall of Fame executive.

The lesson here is simple: the only thing you can do to improve your chances in October is to improve your team overall, and even then you're just making a marginal change in your odds. Since there are rarely mediocre teams in the playoffs (that .500 Padres team a few years ago notwithstanding), a postseason series is usually a battle between two reasonably good teams. And when two reasonably good teams play five games, picking the one that's going to win three games is largely just a matter of guess work.

There's no magic October Formula(TM). You want top-notch, shutdown aces? Been there, done that, witnessed the heartbreak. My namesake headed our rotation for a decade and is a couple months away from being the least controversial Hall of Famer in recent memory. One title from him. And he was backed by what was arguably the greatest rotation in the history of the game.

You want David Price? Sure, we all do. He's a great pitcher. And since he became a starter, Tampa has never advanced beyond the LDS.

In fact, let's go big and give up the farm for Clayton Kershaw. He'll guarantee a deep postseason run. Except since becoming a starter for LA, the Dodgers are 2-2 in his postseason series and he has a 1-3 record and a 4.23 ERA.

Put simply, there's nothing you can do in the off-season that will significantly affect your odds of winning a postseason series, save improving your team to the point where you can reasonably expect to make a postseason series. If you're already in that position, then you, as a general manager, just have to accept that what happens in October is out of your hands, unless you're capable of assembling a true, 1998 Yankees-esque juggernaut.

You know how most forums have a "Read this before posting" post stickied at the top of the page? This should be that post for Chop Country!

 

[weso1]

Why can't BJ be awful again? Same with Uggla. The whole "if" factor for the Braves has gotten old. If so and so rebounds from last season....

Once again there are too many "what if" scenarios with the Braves heading into the season.

CF, 2B, C, and back end rotation are all areas of concern.

I think we have our catcher. I don't see what the issue is there. I think LaStella gives us a nice replacement option for Uggla. I don't see the issue with the back end of the rotation. I think a lot of teams would be happy to have our #4 and #5 starters. CF is definitely a big question mark, but we're stuck with it for now. I guess Schafer isn't a horrible option as a back up, but we definitely need BJ to improve.