Braves to be sold?

B

bravesfanforlife88

Well-known member
They were talking on 680 the fan about some of the braves moves outside of baseball operations. The thought is that Liberty is moving to clear debt to sell the team....

They think that it will be a stock swap essentially, so it would be another corporation that takes over, instead of a single owner....hoping that is not the case...look for this to happy in 2019/2020
 
Interesting - I wish I'd caught that. I wish they'd get sold to an individual owner. Maybe they'll get sold to Coca Cola or something lol
 
Article in AJC kinda debunked the talk on the Fan. Or did they mistake "spin off" as words of sale?

...More
The Braves are making money “at a pretty serious clip,” and team owner Liberty Media plans to stick around for a while.

That was the message from company executives during an investment conference in New York on Wednesday.

“Look, I think there is a lot of good stuff that is going to go on at the Braves that we’d like to remain involved with for a period,” Liberty Media CEO Greg Maffei said. “That includes for the buildout of The Battery, all of the development around there. That includes, frankly, the fact we are well set up for on-field performance with very attractive contracts.

“We are making money now at the Braves at a pretty serious clip, where historically the measurement was we didn’t lose money,” Maffei said. “That’s only going to get better as you approach the time when we renew in 2027 on our (regional sports network) deal. So all of those (factors) set up well to suggest – not that we’re going to hold (the Braves) 10 or nine more years – that there are a lot of positive things happening. … I don’t think we’re in the exit mode today.”

Liberty Media’s chairman, billionaire John Malone, concurred with Maffei’s remarks, which came in response to a question about whether the Braves might be spun off from Liberty into a stand-alone company. Maffei said there’s no clear need to do so “until we got to the exit mode,” although he previously has said a spinoff is a possibility at some point.
 
Braves have had huge revenue spike since moving to suntrust and it’s starting to show as profit on the balance sheet.
 
we aren't that lucky

and i hate Selig for a lot of things but i will never forgive him for allowing Liberty to buy them when Arthur was there wanting them but couldn't go to where the tax break etc on the stock swap Liberty was offering cause it was real money vs monopoly money for arthur and he couldn't compete
 
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goldfly said:
we aren't that lucky

and i hate Selig for a lot of things but i will never forgive him for allowing Liberty to buy them when Arthur was there wanting them but couldn't go to where the tax break etc on the stock swap Liberty was offering cause it was real money vs monopoly money for arthur and he couldn't compete
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IIRC, one of the things keeping Blank from buying the team at that time was the NFL rule prohibiting owners from owning teams in other sports - and he was already well down the road to obtaining the Falcons (if the sale hadn't already closed).

That rule has since changed on the NFL side...

https://www.greenberglawoffice.com/nfl-cross-ownership-rule/

Not sure what issues were (or are still) prevalent on the baseball side.
 
The Braves are middle of the pack in revenue, which logically translates to middle of the pack in payroll. No owner is going to suddenly be OK with his investment losing money and change that calculus.

The "Liberty Media is cheap" narrative is as tired and ignorant as the "we need a frontline pitcher" blabber.
 
clvclv said:
IIRC, one of the things keeping Blank from buying the team at that time was the NFL rule prohibiting owners from owning teams in other sports - and he was already well down the road to obtaining the Falcons (if the sale hadn't already closed).

That rule has since changed on the NFL side...

https://www.greenberglawoffice.com/nfl-cross-ownership-rule/

Not sure what issues were (or are still) prevalent on the baseball side.
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he was already the United owner (although not in the league yet)
 
Enscheff said:
The Braves are middle of the pack in revenue, which logically translates to middle of the pack in payroll. No owner is going to suddenly be OK with his investment losing money and change that calculus.

The "Liberty Media is cheap" narrative is as tired and ignorant as the "we need a frontline pitcher" blabber.
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So what do you make of the first part of this quote:

“We are making money now at the Braves at a pretty serious clip, where historically the measurement was we didn’t lose money,” Maffei said. “That’s only going to get better as you approach the time when we renew in 2027 on our (regional sports network) deal. So all of those (factors) set up well to suggest – not that we’re going to hold (the Braves) 10 or nine more years – that there are a lot of positive things happening. … I don’t think we’re in the exit mode today.”
 
NYCBrave said:
So what do you make of the first part of this quote:

“We are making money now at the Braves at a pretty serious clip, where historically the measurement was we didn’t lose money,” Maffei said. “That’s only going to get better as you approach the time when we renew in 2027 on our (regional sports network) deal. So all of those (factors) set up well to suggest – not that we’re going to hold (the Braves) 10 or nine more years – that there are a lot of positive things happening. … I don’t think we’re in the exit mode today.”
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And payroll went up...even with Liberty as the owners. It is almost assuredly going up again this year. That quote in no way contradicts my statement.

Again, this narrative that Liberty Media is preventing the Braves from having a higher payroll is pure and utter ignorance. Payroll is almost exactly in line with revenue compared to other MLB teams.

We have to hope cord cutting doesn't tank the value of the Braves RSN deal by 2027 so they can raise payroll even more.
 
Enscheff said:
The Braves are middle of the pack in revenue, which logically translates to middle of the pack in payroll. No owner is going to suddenly be OK with his investment losing money and change that calculus.

The "Liberty Media is cheap" narrative is as tired and ignorant as the "we need a frontline pitcher" blabber.
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As always, you are completely wrong on this. The Braves are #7 in revenue and #21 in payroll. Not "middle of the pack" for either. Thanks for playing
 
Freshmaker said:
As always, you are completely wrong on this. The Braves are #7 in revenue and #21 in payroll. Not "middle of the pack" for either. Thanks for playing
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Revenue does not equal profit. The Braves have to spend more to make more because they don’t have a TV deal sending them free money like other teams.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Revenue does not equal profit. The Braves have to spend more to make more because they don’t have a TV deal sending them free money like other teams.
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Right. Enscheff said revenue tho, which is completely false. They are not middle of the pack. They're just spending it on the new spring training facility instead of improving the major league team
 
Enscheff said:
And payroll went up...even with Liberty as the owners. It is almost assuredly going up again this year. That quote in no way contradicts my statement.

Again, this narrative that Liberty Media is preventing the Braves from having a higher payroll is pure and utter ignorance. Payroll is almost exactly in line with revenue compared to other MLB teams.

We have to hope cord cutting doesn't tank the value of the Braves RSN deal by 2027 so they can raise payroll even more.
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I wasn't saying it contradicted you. I was actually curious to hear your opinion on the fact that Liberty was essentially comfortable breaking even, but now they're making money off of the Braves. It really doesn't insinuate that payroll will rise, but maybe as revenue rises they'll pocket it? Who knows really.
 
NYCBrave said:
I wasn't saying it contradicted you. I was actually curious to hear your opinion on the fact that Liberty was essentially comfortable breaking even, but now they're making money off of the Braves. It really doesn't insinuate that payroll will rise, but maybe as revenue rises they'll pocket it? Who knows really.
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FG just did an article on the Braves finances. Here is a comment below the article (I have no idea if this guy knows what he's talking about).

"In the past, the Braves tended to take paper losses by declaring as much depreciation as possible. This minimized tax liability. For example last year in the first year of the new stadium, they took a significant depreciation hit for the increase in the value of executive stock options because new stadium had increased the franchise value. (Taking a depreciation because of appreciation – ironic.) This year the incentive favors maximizing profit because they had been running up against the MLB debt rule that says a team with stadium debt should limit debt to 12 times profit. The debt is currently in the $620M-$630M range, and that $100M profit cited in the article doesn’t include the 4th quarter. Last year they lost about $40M in the 4th quarter. This year’s 4th quarter may be quite different with the playoff appearance and the sale of apartment buildings, but they’ve given themselves some room to make sure they turn enough profit to get in compliance with the MLB debt rule. If there’s extra left at the end of the year, they can pay down principal on debt or put it towards building phase 3 of the Battery."

The parts I bolded suggest a few things:

1. Declaring "profit" in these large businesses involve a lot of silly gray area accounting (we all know that stuff goes on)
2. This year, it benefited the Braves to post a high "profit" to meet the MLB debt rules
3. The Braves are likely to lose money in the 4th quarter, which will cut into that $100M profit in 2018

All this to reiterate...The Braves payroll is what it is because they have mid-market revenues. A new owner isn't going to change that, and citing the Braves "profits" is not a real argument for higher payroll.
 
Enscheff said:
FG just did an article on the Braves finances. Here is a comment below the article (I have no idea if this guy knows what he's talking about).

"In the past, the Braves tended to take paper losses by declaring as much depreciation as possible. This minimized tax liability. For example last year in the first year of the new stadium, they took a significant depreciation hit for the increase in the value of executive stock options because new stadium had increased the franchise value. (Taking a depreciation because of appreciation – ironic.) This year the incentive favors maximizing profit because they had been running up against the MLB debt rule that says a team with stadium debt should limit debt to 12 times profit. The debt is currently in the $620M-$630M range, and that $100M profit cited in the article doesn’t include the 4th quarter. Last year they lost about $40M in the 4th quarter. This year’s 4th quarter may be quite different with the playoff appearance and the sale of apartment buildings, but they’ve given themselves some room to make sure they turn enough profit to get in compliance with the MLB debt rule. If there’s extra left at the end of the year, they can pay down principal on debt or put it towards building phase 3 of the Battery."

The parts I bolded suggest a few things:

1. Declaring "profit" in these large businesses involve a lot of silly gray area accounting (we all know that stuff goes on)
2. This year, it benefited the Braves to post a high "profit" to meet the MLB debt rules
3. The Braves are likely to lose money in the 4th quarter, which will cut into that $100M profit in 2018

All this to reiterate...The Braves payroll is what it is because they have mid-market revenues. A new owner isn't going to change that, and citing the Braves "profits" is not a real argument for higher payroll.
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Do you think that The Battery does anything to increase their revenues?
 
NYCBrave said:
Do you think that The Battery does anything to increase their revenues?
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Of course it does.

Here's the thing: the only thing that keeps the Braves from being one of the spending big boys is a. the local TV contract and b. a willingness by ownership to treat themselves as a large market franchise.

As for b:

Atlanta is 9th largest MSA in the country at 5.9M just behind Philly, Washington and Miami. Atlanta also is the only ML team for hundreds of miles in any direction, effectively becoming the default ML team for #22 Charlotte MSA, #36 Nashville, #40 Jacksonville (anyone wanting to argue, I'll agree to split with the FL teams), #43 Raleigh, #49 Birmingham, #61 Greenville, SC, #64 Knoxville, #71 Columbia, SC, #74 Charleston, #75 Greensboro and on and on. Heck the whole State of Mississippi is generally Braves territory. Some of this is driven by the fading memory of the old TBS nightly broadcasts but most is proximity.

You may say that that's nice but fans have to show up. That's missing the point. The point is there's enough fans, even outside the Atlanta MSA to fill the stadium IF the product is worth the spend. It takes a will and desire by ownership to do what it takes. In 1973 George Steinbrenner bought the Yankees for $8.7M. In 2015 they were valued at $3.2B. Did he spend along the way? Of course he did. But he had a plan and it wasn't just all about winning. It was about value creation. He was a master at it and he also made the rest of the owners a lot of money. While they sat back, their franchises increased in value BECAUSE the Yankees increased in value.

Ted Turner, when he could be bothered to have interest, was much the same.
 
NYCBrave said:
Do you think that The Battery does anything to increase their revenues?
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If I’m not mistaken the Battery is owned by the team so revenue from the developement would increase revenue for the team.

One thing that seems to get over looked is the residential part of the Battery was sold recently for over 150 million. While this will decrease revenue some this stroke of the pen eliminated 150 million of debt. Unless this money is reinvested I would think the Braves are well under the debt ceiling limit.

Another thing we don’t talk about is the type of debt the Braves have. Remember when the Marlins were being sold they had 600 million in debt. The vast majority of that debt was money committed to player salaries. The Braves debt load is tied to the brick and mortar at Suntrust. Over time the Braves debt will have value as opposed to it going out the door to players. I believe Liberty Media is playing for 2027 and the new tv deal. By then half the Battery debt will be paid and they will have pockets full of tv money. We could see a top 10 payroll

I’m more bullish on the Braves ability to spend this off season than most. I think 55 million is not out of the question. The bean counters now have a year of winning baseball on the books. Winning baseball appears to be more profitable
 
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