Braves Will Be Even Better In 2014

Uggla, yes could/probably be done.

BJ is just 29, he didnt just lose it at that age, he had a solid year the year before with the Rays.

How do you know he didn't lose it? It happened to both Murphy and Druw around the same age. I don't know what kind of backwoods logic you're using, but logic tells me if it happens once, it can happen again. It isn't like BJ was Chipper Jones with bat before last yr anyways. There is a chance Upton improves and there is a chance he simply won't. I hope last yr was an anomaly, but I am certainly not going to expect an improvement "just because."

He looked dreadful at the plate all yr. It's one thing if he gets unlucky. It's quite another to simply look completely lost at the plate like he did last yr.
 
Whatever drop off in production from certain guys should be cancelled out by other guys improving.

The Braves won 96 games with Tim Hudson missing half the season. With Brian McCann missing April and doing absolutely nothing in the 2nd half of the season. With B.J. Upton and Dan Uggla having 2 of the worst seasons in MLB history. With Jason Heyward missing roughly 2 months of the season. With Justin Upton doing very little offensively after April. With Evan Gattis playing a lot in LF and being a major defensive liability out there. With Paul Maholm getting 26 or so starts and being pretty bad for the majority of those starts. With EOF pitching in only a few games. With Jonny Venters not throwing a single pitch in the regular season. With Brandon Beachy making only 5 starts. The Braves despite all of those issues still won 96 games. Logic tells us that the Braves should have fewer injuries in 2014 and therefore should get better overall production across the board just based on having less injuries. Logic tells us that there's no way B.J. Upton and Dan Uggla can be any worse in 2014 than they were in 2013. Logic tells us that Chris Johnson will suffer a major regression. But even if he does and hits "only" like he did in 2012 he would still be an asset offensively. Logic tells us that David Carpenter more than likely will also suffer a major regression. The year he had came out of nowhere like Johnson and unlike Johnson, Carpenter's previous track record before 2013 is spotty at best. I do really worry about him. Who knows if Freddie Freeman will regress or not? We don't know what his peak is as a hitter. Is it 2013? Is that his peak? Or could he be even better, as in hit for more power? We don't know. Although it was a very good sign when he went on a homerun bring in September and hit 6 long balls. It's a shame that didn't carry into the Dodgers series. Will Julio Teheran stay the same, regress or get better? We don't know because 2013 was his first full season in the majors. Will Mike Minor regress? I don't think so because if you look at his last 50 or so starts they're great and that's a big enough sample size to start gaining a feel for what he is capable of doing on a yearly basis. I think what Kris Medlen did was what his normal production is capable of being on a yearly basis. What will the Braves get from Evan Gattis? We're not sure. But even if he does what he did in 2013 that should be enough that the drop off from McCann wouldn't be enough to create a major hole in lost production. Even if that is the case, the improvement that we should get from B.J. Upton should make up for that difference between McCann and Gattis and make up for Johnson's expected regression.

The Braves are not 10 wins worse than they were last year and the Nationals aren't 10 wins better than they were last year. The Mets, Phillies and Marlins are all going to put horrible teams on the field so they're not even in the discussion. The Braves should win the NL East in 2014.

Carpenter will not cause us to lose the division if he is bad he will be replaced. We have ALOT of RH options out of the pen. I do kind of wish though that we could start Beachy out in the pen to make it so hes still pitching in SEPT and OCT
 
How do you know he didn't lose it? It happened to both Murphy and Druw around the same age. I don't know what kind of backwoods logic you're using, but logic tells me if it happens once, it can happen again. It isn't like BJ was Chipper Jones with bat before last yr anyways. There is a chance Upton improves and there is a chance he simply won't. I hope last yr was an anomaly, but I am certainly not going to expect an improvement "just because."

He looked dreadful at the plate all yr. It's one thing if he gets unlucky. It's quite another to simply look completely lost at the plate like he did last yr.

That's the Carpe we all know and hate. Comparing murphy/Drew to BJ is horribly wrong. Bossman is tall so he's certainly a breakdown risk, But he's nowhere near as bulky as Druw or Murph. Druw was 6'1 225 Murph was 6'4 210, Bossman is 6'3 185. Druw and Murph "losing it" was because of wearing down. Murph was his knees and Druw was knees and back. If Bossman starts losing one of those then he's in trouble (and we're in trouble) but no indications at all of any issues with his knees or back or anything. I think more of his issues was big contractitis. Pushing too hard to prove you're worth the deal everyone says you're not.
 
Too bad Schuerholz wasn't able to pull the trigger on the Andruw Jones for Mags deal when there was still a chance. The FO saw Druw's decline coming.
 
Too bad Schuerholz wasn't able to pull the trigger on the Andruw Jones for Mags deal when there was still a chance. The FO saw Druw's decline coming.

And miss out on Andruws 50 and 40 homer seasons? Good thing that deal wasn't made. Magglio was a free agent to be in 2004 when that trade rumor was going down. He then signed with the Tigers for 5/75. And outside of that one amazing year in 2007 he was an injury prone defensive wreck the rest of the time topping out at 2.1 WAR in the other 4 years. That would of been a horrible trade had we let Magglio walk and an even worse signing.
 
Sure. I never said we are going to be a bad team. But expecting 96 wins again is unrealistic. We lost two very productive players and did not replace them. The Nats underperformed most of last yr and have improved their team. We aren't going to dominate them like we did last yr. Philly is improved and should be competitive. Every single sign points to us winning less games in 2014. Being realistic and being pessimistic are two different things. We should still be a good team, but there's no way we run away with the division like last yr.

I said earlier in this thread we're about a 91 win team give or take a couple wins depending on the health/success of Heyward and J-Up.

How in the world are the Phillies improved? Please explain that one.
 
Why we so we assume BJ and Uggla are going to magically improve? Even if they "can't get any worse", there is still a good chance that they simply don't get any better. Players just simply lose it sometimes. Especially when they play the positions that Uggla and BJ do. We all saw what happened with Andruw and Murph. Most 2b starting drastically declining around Uggla's age too.

Because if Uggla doesn't improve he will be replaced pretty quickly by someone who will do better. So it's a guarantee to get better production from the 2B position. B.J. just turned 29. You don't just forget how to play baseball in the prime of your life overnight when it's something you've done your whole life. Comparing him to Andruw is crazy. Andruw lost it because he didn't take care of his body and it started betraying him, also he was over 30 too when it happened. Murphy's decline also happened after he was over 30. And even at 35 years old Murp had a season where he hit .252/.309/.415 (.724) with 18 HR. Better than what we got from B.J. last year.
 
Carpenter will not cause us to lose the division if he is bad he will be replaced. We have ALOT of RH options out of the pen. I do kind of wish though that we could start Beachy out in the pen to make it so hes still pitching in SEPT and OCT

I didn't say Carpenter would make us lose the division. Just staying that the area of the team I'm most worried about is the bullpen because we had guys like Carpenter and Avilan come out of nowhere to do what they did. We don't know if they're capable of doing that again. Sure we've got a lot of different guys to try out should Carpenter falter but who's to say they will do well at the MLB level since most of those options have never pitched at the MLB level? Ask the Tigers how important a good bullpen is. The Tigers starting rotation has been stacked the last two years as well as their offensive lineup but they've not won in the playoffs because of having a bad bullpen. Heck ask the Braves how important a good bullpen is. The reason the Braves only won one World Series was because of the bullpen losing the series against the Twins and Blue Jays in 91 and 92. Especially that 92 WS. Every game the Braves lost in that series was a direct result of the bullpen getting rocked.
 
That's the Carpe we all know and hate. Comparing murphy/Drew to BJ is horribly wrong. Bossman is tall so he's certainly a breakdown risk, But he's nowhere near as bulky as Druw or Murph. Druw was 6'1 225 Murph was 6'4 210, Bossman is 6'3 185. Druw and Murph "losing it" was because of wearing down. Murph was his kneesS and Druw was knees and back. If Bossman starts losing one of those then he's in trouble (and we're in trouble) but no indications at all of any issues with his knees or back or anything. I think more of his issues was big contractitis. Pushing too hard to prove you're worth the deal everyone says you're not.

I wasn't comparing them physically. I just used them as a reference b/c they are former Braves. CF is a very demanding position. There are plenty of examples of CFers who break down early due to the way they play the position.
 
And miss out on Andruws 50 and 40 homer seasons? Good thing that deal wasn't made. Magglio was a free agent to be in 2004 when that trade rumor was going down. He then signed with the Tigers for 5/75. And outside of that one amazing year in 2007 he was an injury prone defensive wreck the rest of the time topping out at 2.1 WAR in the other 4 years. That would of been a horrible trade had we let Magglio walk and an even worse signing.

Everybody overlooks the raw suckage of Andruw's last season w/ the Braves & first season with the Dodgers. It's interesting that your reply neglects to include details of his FA contract. Also, just citing his stats with the White Sox & Tigers is no exact indication of how events would've played out, if he'd have joined the Braves. Nor would it have been set in stone that he would've necessarily made been DL'd multiple times.

Also interesting that the 51 HR's were mentioned (for a couple of reasons). First, evaluators are going to see massive jump from 29 to 51 with relatively the same number of AB's. Shortly thereafter, a rapid decline began. Guess what they're going to think? A lot are tainted with the 'roid brush. Don't know and don't care, but that's going to be the perception. That's just to preclude the inevitable HOF discussion that always follows.
 
Just thought of something else. The Mariners lost superstars Ken Griffy Jr., Randy Johnson and A-Rod in consecutive seasons and then got better. We could suppose that their WAR ratings were respectable. One season with an aberration of a HR surge from Andruw Jones didn't lead the team to greatness. Turns out that they only had 90wins that season. Jordan and Mondesi were on that team. Kolb & Reitsma, too. Remember the fun times at Scout?
 
The reason for McCann's drop in BABIP is because teams started playing that dead shift against him and he has never adjusted to it. When McCann first came up he used the whole field as a hitter. But then he became a dead pull hitter for the most part so once teams made the adjustment defensively to account for that McCann's average and BABIP dropped like a rock.

False
 
That's the Carpe we all know and hate. Comparing murphy/Drew to BJ is horribly wrong. Bossman is tall so he's certainly a breakdown risk, But he's nowhere near as bulky as Druw or Murph. Druw was 6'1 225 Murph was 6'4 210, Bossman is 6'3 185. Druw and Murph "losing it" was because of wearing down. Murph was his knees and Druw was knees and back. If Bossman starts losing one of those then he's in trouble (and we're in trouble) but no indications at all of any issues with his knees or back or anything. I think more of his issues was big contractitis. Pushing too hard to prove you're worth the deal everyone says you're not.

Talking to the scout for this area, he said he would never have advised the Braves to sign BJ to that contract. But he wasn't asked.
 
Hitting will probably (everything is speculation now, its Feb) be about the same as last year, various things will change but they'll roughly cancel out. Starting pitching could be a lot worse with so many young, relatively unproven arms in the rotation. Really can't expect much improvement vs last year from Minor and Teheran. Medlen isn't going to get much better or worse at this point, IMO. That leaves Beachy, a major question mark, Wood, very young but some real upside there, and Garcia/Floyd, two guys you don't want to bet the house on, for sure.

So I'm seeing a pretty iffy case for getting to 96 wins again. And I think the rotation is whats scaring me.
 

How about actually debating my point instead of just calling it "false". What makes what I said false? Did teams not adjust defensively to McCann by putting on that shift? Did McCann himself become more of a dead pull hitter which led to teams putting on that shift for him? Did that not lead to a lower average and BABIP?
 
How about actually debating my point instead of just calling it "false". What makes what I said false? Did teams not adjust defensively to McCann by putting on that shift? Did McCann himself become more of a dead pull hitter which led to teams putting on that shift for him? Did that not lead to a lower average and BABIP?

No. I shouldn't have to debate a point when people make stuff up.

Last year McCann hit .362/ witha .876 slugging % when pulling the ball.

12- .280/.680

11- .370/.803

10- .387/.802

I think you. Get my point.
 
No. I shouldn't have to debate a point when people make stuff up.

Last year McCann hit .362/ witha .876 slugging % when pulling the ball.
12- .280/.680
11- .370/.803
10- .387/.802

I think you. Get my point.

Ok genius. Why has McCann's average been ****ty 4 years in a row then? If McCann's been so good when he pulls the ball and the shift hasn't effected him then answer that question.
 
Ok genius. Why has McCann's average been ****ty 4 years in a row then? If McCann's been so good when he pulls the ball and the shift hasn't effected him then answer that question.

Increased strikeout rate is the main reason. That's the main difference from what he's doing now and 2008 and prior.
 
Ok genius. Why has McCann's average been ****ty 4 years in a row then? If McCann's been so good when he pulls the ball and the shift hasn't effected him then answer that question.

I dunno. Maybe he hasn't pulled the ball enough
 
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