Camargo
- Thread starter msstate7
- Start date
The Braves can do better at 3B than a guy who can't hit RHP, especially since defensive value declines at an earlier age than offensive value.
Posting overall numbers for platoon players and then extrapolating them over a full season is a more than a bit misleading as well...
Camargo's overall career line has been accumulated while facing ~29% LHP, while the average MLB hitter faces ~39% LHP. Camargo has been placed in situations he is more likely to succeed in, so extrapolating those numbers to a full season completely ignores the fact that he wouldn't be in those advantageous situations as frequently over the course a full season as an everyday player.
He is a perfectly fine stop gap until Riley gets his shot, and I would look for the Braves to add a LHH who can help cover 3B a bit as well.
Posting overall numbers for platoon players and then extrapolating them over a full season is a more than a bit misleading as well...
Camargo's overall career line has been accumulated while facing ~29% LHP, while the average MLB hitter faces ~39% LHP. Camargo has been placed in situations he is more likely to succeed in, so extrapolating those numbers to a full season completely ignores the fact that he wouldn't be in those advantageous situations as frequently over the course a full season as an everyday player.
He is a perfectly fine stop gap until Riley gets his shot, and I would look for the Braves to add a LHH who can help cover 3B a bit as well.
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sturg33
I
Doesn't that imply he HASNT faced lefties at the average clip, and thus his overall numbers are skewed negatively?
JxnMissFan
Gwinnett Bound
What part of this graph looks like a fluke to you?
Thank you. Everyone seems to forget that he was propped up last year with an unsustainable BABIP and this year he is carrying a walk rate that is unsustainable. If you average the two sets of 82 game numbers I don"t think anyone on this board would be happy to have that player as thier starting 3rd baseman.
GeorgiaGirl
NL Rookie of the Year
I think the reason his walk rate was spiked earlier was because teams were going on his old scouting report where he was a pure hacker. That obviously changed very quickly after May, because in May, even just looking at BA-OBP split, it was at over +.100. Since then, it's just at +.056 (which is better than 2017, but is not as great as it was in May).
The hilarious thing about his season is for quite a while, statcast stats were saying he was getting unlucky. Now it's reversed! They say he's getting a little lucky now.
His LHH swing is still ugly unless you throw him an up and away pitch or just a complete mistake.
The hilarious thing about his season is for quite a while, statcast stats were saying he was getting unlucky. Now it's reversed! They say he's getting a little lucky now.
His LHH swing is still ugly unless you throw him an up and away pitch or just a complete mistake.
You are correct. His overall line would be bumped up if he faced more LHP.
Still, that .240/.352/.388 line vs RHP isn't what you want to see in an everyday 3B whose real BB rate probably doesn't support that .352 OBP long term.
Everything else suggests his 2018 BB rate vs RHP of 13.1% is more likely to be half that going forward. Suddenly a .240/.310/.388 line vs RHP doesn't look playable at all.
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JxnMissFan
Gwinnett Bound
Camargo will be like Jace Peterson. He will have stretches where he looks good and he will have bad stretches but as soon as he hits his arb years and cost 2.5 million a year he will be gone.
AA stated we were in on an impact LH bat that he will continue to explore in the offseason. The more I looked in to it, the more I think Travis Shaw could have been that guy.
The Brewers could use some pitching. They Have Lecerg at 3B and Hiura as their 3B and 2B of the future who could both be ready next season some time. They now have Schoop who could play 2B or 3B.
I'm not sure what the return would need to be and it may very well need to include Camargo to offset the timetable of Lecerg and Hiura being ready, but Shaw may be a guy we can go after this offseason.
The Brewers could use some pitching. They Have Lecerg at 3B and Hiura as their 3B and 2B of the future who could both be ready next season some time. They now have Schoop who could play 2B or 3B.
I'm not sure what the return would need to be and it may very well need to include Camargo to offset the timetable of Lecerg and Hiura being ready, but Shaw may be a guy we can go after this offseason.
GeorgiaGirl
NL Rookie of the Year
If I were Camargo, I'd at least try to give up switch hitting. He was not a switch hitter at the start, but tried to learn it. And I think, based off what we see, it's pretty clear he's a true talent, .650 OPS'er on that side.
He should play some winter league just batting right handed and see if he can pull off going back to being a RHH at this point.
He should play some winter league just batting right handed and see if he can pull off going back to being a RHH at this point.
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This is a very good take, and I think you might be onto something.
It was odd for the Brewers to acquire Mous, move Shaw to 2B where he hasn't ever played at the MLB level, and then acquire another 2B in Schoop...all while having Hiura nearly ready at 2B. Then they failed to acquire ANY pitching when they had a pretty big need there.
It almost seems like Shaw was supposed to be flipped to the Braves for young pitching with Mous and Schoop at 2B/3B, but the Shaw deal didn't happen for whatever reason.
I agree with you...Shaw might be a very likely trade target this off season.
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Yeah. It was odd.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Career splits:
Camargo 1.020 OPS against lefties .692 against righties
Albies .869 vs lefties and .797 vs righties
Swanson .745 vs lefties and .667 vs righties
There is a compelling need for a left handed hitting infielder who can play against righties. That player does not have to be positionally versatile, since Camargo, Albies and Swanson can each play all over the infield.
Roster Construction 101. I remain perplexed that this has not been addressed by AA.
This hitter does have to hit righties well. .750 OPS or better. Otherwise there is no point.
Camargo 1.020 OPS against lefties .692 against righties
Albies .869 vs lefties and .797 vs righties
Swanson .745 vs lefties and .667 vs righties
There is a compelling need for a left handed hitting infielder who can play against righties. That player does not have to be positionally versatile, since Camargo, Albies and Swanson can each play all over the infield.
Roster Construction 101. I remain perplexed that this has not been addressed by AA.
This hitter does have to hit righties well. .750 OPS or better. Otherwise there is no point.
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A .750 OPS roughly translates to a .320 wOBA. Below are all the players who have accumulated 100+ PAs at 3B in 2017/2018 at 3B and have posted a wOBA of .320+ vs RHP:
1 Jose Ramirez 237.534 for 568 0.418
2 Matt Carpenter 109.163 for 276 0.396
3 Josh Donaldson 169.904 for 447 0.380
4 Cory Spangenberg 119.714 for 318 0.379
5 Kris Bryant 284.137 for 749 0.379
6 Miguel Sano 144.892 for 382 0.379
7 Travis Shaw 277.858 for 735 0.378
8 Ryon Healy 44.267 for 120 0.369
9 Anthony Rendon 274.070 for 744 0.368
10 Jake Lamb 235.580 for 643 0.366
11 Matt Davidson 43.628 for 120 0.364
12 Adrian Beltre 138.641 for 384 0.361
13 Miguel Andujar 92.480 for 256 0.361
14 Daniel Descalso 38.671 for 107 0.361
15 Eugenio Suarez 269.217 for 762 0.353
16 Mike Moustakas 212.657 for 606 0.351
17 Alex Bregman 245.908 for 706 0.348
18 Matt Chapman 177.787 for 513 0.347
19 Nolan Arenado 274.956 for 794 0.347
20 Joey Gallo 63.991 for 185 0.346
21 Justin Turner 160.000 for 468 0.343
22 Wilmer Flores 65.169 for 193 0.338
23 Matt Duffy 86.579 for 257 0.337
24 Eduardo Escobar 140.748 for 421 0.334
25 Chase Headley 92.403 for 280 0.331
26 Colin Moran 87.408 for 266 0.329
27 Jedd Gyorko 147.303 for 450 0.327
28 Todd Frazier 191.450 for 588 0.326
29 Manny Machado 178.716 for 553 0.323
30 Rafael Devers 146.895 for 459 0.320
From that list, the most likely guy to be available and pass through waivers is Donaldson...if he's healthy.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Headley is available I believe.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
A Shaw/jo-gun platoon would have been a beast at 3b
I mentally eliminated guys who are awful this year.