Can We Compete in 2016

auyushu said:
Which is why the wait for 2017 mantra is pretty wacky. It doesn't really line up with the talent we have in the minors. Most of our elite talent is in the lower minors and won't be ready till 2018. So we either have to really kick butt this offseason making trades or FA signings or we aren't going to be competitive in 2016 and 2017. And if we aren't willing to do shell out the money to make that happen we might as well just get a couple more top draft picks rather than push really hard simply to be a .500 team.
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This is why Hart really, REALLY needs to keep pushing with the rebuild. Sign an ace who can BE an ace for 5-6 more years and serviceable in years 6-7? Yes, go sign Price. It's a gamble of course because Price could get injured, or against all history, lose effectiveness fast. But, it at least fits the long term plan of building some excitement (maybe even competing) in 2017 with reality of being a force through 2020.

Sign the LF equivalent of Markakis to a 4 year deal? No, Gordon makes NO sense for the team because you still have the gamble but NO fit for the long term goal. Firstly, you are already paying Markakis for all the "intangible" hocus pocus so you have to judge Gordon on production. And, at his age and injury history, you might get 2, maybe 3 good years (relative), most of which will be when the Braves are least prepared to be competitive.

The FA market is flush with pitchers, some very good pitchers. Use Miller and/or Teheran to bring back strong minor league talent to fill the everyday position holes and replace those guys from the market. (However, at this point it would probably be best to hold onto Teheran until mid season 2016 and hope he rebuilds his value).
 
Our lineup these days is close to what I think it will be in 2016: Markakis, Maybin and Swisher in the OF; Freeman, Jace, Simmons and Olivera in the IF, and AJ and Bethancourt catching.

Will be interesting to see what kind of offense this group generates during the rest of the season. It will provide a hint as to how competitive we can be in 2016.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
Yes!!! We would still be hovering around .500 for this year had we not traded Wood, KJ, JJ, and Uribe. Freeman had not missed 1/3 of the season and Grilli not gotten hurt or traded. The team that is out there right now is just not an accurate picture of the first half of the year. It's really been two separate years and teams. For it to get better Hart must find solutions for the 6th-7th.
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I predicted 71-91 and I think we hit that easily if we hang onto the four guys you mention. .500 would probably be a bit much in my estimation.

The last couple of moves made by Hart are head-scratchers to me. Like I've said before, I'm not sold on either Wood or Peraza, but I have a strong aversion to Cuban players (even when healthy). The Johnson for Swisher and Bourn really made no sense to me in either the short or long terms. Those contracts go off the books after 2016, but a dollar spent in either the short or long terms is a dollar that can't be used on something else.

nsacpi, I think your 8 WAR out of Freeman and Simmons points out one of my quibbles with how defensive value, while valid, may not translate in terms of value to a team. Simmons has a great glove, but for this team to elevate, we can't have an iffy hitter at any position and Simmons is an iffy hitter (at least to me).

We simply have to pitch better next season, both in the rotation and in the bullpen. Nothing can kill a team's spirit like bad pitching.

PS--I think it's more likely we'll be competitive by 2018 or 2019. We have some bats in the minors that may be ready by then.

PPS--I'm not going to complain too much about Markakis. I didn't like the signing, but I think most of the criticism levelled against him comes from the unfair comparison to our previous RF. He's done alright, but he's a support level player at this point in his career and I thought the 4-year deal was two seasons too long.
 
What's interesting is we've gone through so many contortions to clear the Melvin and CJ contracts to free up funds for 2017, yet our talent in the minors points to us being competitive in 2018 or later. All of the punting this year and next seems unlikely to have the desired effect of having a strong team in place for 2017. Unless we start trading prospects for major leaguers.

My fear is we start cannibalizing 2018 and beyond just as we have cannibalized 2015 and 2016 because of the zeal to have something special in 2017.
 
You're right 50. Markakis is a good role player and does what he needs to get on base. We need one more big hitter to pair with Freeman with power. If we can get that in LF then I think we'll be on the right track. Pitching which was supposed to be our biggest strength is looking like our biggest weakness. Our bullpen other than Viz needs to be cut and start over from scratch. I'm hoping Wisler and others are just having growing pains. I know the FO is saying competitive by 2017 and if that's true then they have their work cut out for them this offseason.
 
nsacpi said:
What's interesting is we've gone through so many contortions to clear the Melvin and CJ contracts to free up funds for 2017, yet our talent in the minors points to us being competitive in 2018 or later. All of the punting this year and next seems unlikely to have the desired effect of having a strong team in place for 2017. Unless we start trading prospects for major leaguers.
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I am curious where Ruiz and D. Peterson will start the 2016 seasons. I think those two, along with Davidson, constitute guys who have a chance at the big league level, but no earlier than 2017 for Ruiz and 2018 or 2019 for D. Peterson and Davidson. Of course, Riley and company in the rookie leagues may move as quickly (although I am a noteable rookie league skeptic).
 
I think there's a list of guys they won't trade. Albies, Allard, Riley, and Davidson being atop the list. Especially with the #1 pick in the draft coming and rumors about us spending big on the international front. I think we'll see a big shake up this offseason.
 
Hudson2 said:
I think there's a list of guys they won't trade. Albies, Allard, Riley, and Davidson being atop the list. Especially with the #1 pick in the draft coming and rumors about us spending big on the international front. I think we'll see a big shake up this offseason.
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Possible, but we don't have much to shake unless we send money along with guys like Swisher, Bourn, and Markakis. There are times I wish we had traded Simmons and moved Peraza back to SS, but with Peraza gone, we don't have any back-up behind Simmons. As spectacular (and solid) Simmons is with the glove, I think he's lost as a hitter.
 
I mean with free agents to. Simmons looks good and then just looks lost. It's crazy. I'm still holding out hope for his bat but we are probably seeing what he is with the bat.
 
starting pitching
Miller, good
Teheran, what happened?
Perez, ajax may be stronger than dirt, he is not
Wisler, I said the first time I saw him he looked very hittable, have not changed my mind
Folty, I was hopeful he got it the one game he backed off from trying to throw 100mph, the next game he was right back at it.
Minor, will he be a Brave nor not? Where will he be after a year not pitching

The pen
we have an injured Grilli, not sure the time table for his return, ok not great
Viscaino, looks pretty solid
Shae Simmons can he make a comeback?
the rest? dirt.

1B Freeman, love Freddie, but he needs real protection in this lineup
2B Peterson, well, the jury is still out
SS Simmons his defense is still enough to offset his lapses at teh plate.
3B Olivera, not impressed so far, he has the range of a hippo and no sense of instinct to play 3b from what I have seen
C sorry I do not want AJ back , they are screwing themselves by not playing Bethancourt every day to find out if he can handle it, if not sign or trade for a catcher dangit, but let the old AJ go on his way, we need a better game caller for our pitchers.

OF
Markakis, he is here and will stay but not sure why we are paying him that much money
Maybin, I am torn, not sure what to believe, still think Mallex is the future so a trade might be a good idea
Swisher/Bourne, really I have to say anything here? garbage and we are paying too much just to rid ourselves of Johnson, but it appears we will be stuck with both next year because of the salary both will earn.

Bench
there is not a single player here that I could not exchange for just about anyone else, that is sad.

so can we compete in 2016? not likely given the current roster construction, I do not see how they fix it by 2017 to be honest.
 
We also have to hope that all the acquired bullpen pitchers (disabled w TJ surgeries) can pitch well in 2016.
 
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