blueagleace1
Playing the Waiting Game
Gotcha, he's always been a guy with a good stick just trying to find where he fits best in the field. Also, I believe (may be wrong here) he played with Carlos Correa at the Puerto Rico Baseball Academy.
Catchers
- Thread starter msstate7
- Start date
Gotcha, he's always been a guy with a good stick just trying to find where he fits best in the field. Also, I believe (may be wrong here) he played with Carlos Correa at the Puerto Rico Baseball Academy.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
The last time I saw him vs Mississippi I was thinking "Wow, he's really bad at blocking balls" because it seemed like there were passed balls or near passed balls every other inning.
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
There was also a time when we had 4 different All-Star catchers over a 20+ year period (Olson, Lopez, Estrada, McCann), and would have been 5 had Gattis not gotten injured right before the end of balloting in 2014.
It looked like with Gattis and Bethancourt coming up that we were just going to be strong at that position forever. Ironic that it is such a weakness now.
bravos4evr
Still Playing the Waiting Game
It's not just us, league wide catcher has really fallen off. between 2010 and 2012 18 catchers averaged 1.5 WAR a year and 15 averaged over a 100 wRC+, since then, (2013-2015) only 13 have averaged over 1.5 WAR a year and only 11 have a wRC+ over 100. and this season ( true it is early still) only 10 have a wRC+ over 100 (with at least 90 PA's) Many of these guys are older too ( Mac, Molina, Ianetta, Salty,Weiters and Lucroy are all 30 or older) MLB needs an influx of good young catchers or it might end up back in the 80's where it seemed like there were 5 good hitting catchers and everyone else had to make do with Bruce Benedict types
rico43
<B>Director of Minor League Reports</B>
The Braves have two guys that have them excited -- one by design, the other by surprise.
Lucas Herbert, from Allard's school, was drafted in the second round last year, hit a homer in his first pro game and was hurt in his third. Back healthy, he was made Rome's No. 1 catcher at the age of 19 and is throwing out baserunners at a 50 percent clip (if I'm reading his stat line right).
His Rome teammate, Jonathan Morales, is a year older, but is hitting over .300, has yet to make an error behind the plate (20 games) and is throwing out guys at around a 40 percent clip.
Oh, and Astudillo was 3-3 throwing out runners on Saturday.
Lucas Herbert, from Allard's school, was drafted in the second round last year, hit a homer in his first pro game and was hurt in his third. Back healthy, he was made Rome's No. 1 catcher at the age of 19 and is throwing out baserunners at a 50 percent clip (if I'm reading his stat line right).
His Rome teammate, Jonathan Morales, is a year older, but is hitting over .300, has yet to make an error behind the plate (20 games) and is throwing out guys at around a 40 percent clip.
Oh, and Astudillo was 3-3 throwing out runners on Saturday.
I have a suspicion that a lot of this dropoff is due to the recent emphasis on pitch-framing when valuing catchers. I believe (although I might be mistaken), that the defensive component of fWAR does not take pitch framing ability into account. Assuming that's true, it could lead to a number of catchers being sought out for a skill that doesn't show up in the more common metrics we usually cite to compare players.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
If there are a bunch of deadline moves like last year, I fully expect we'll be shopping for a decent catching prospect who is at least at the AA level. I think Herbert is going to be fine. He had a rough April but has been hitting better since.
Baseball-wide, catching has become a position that is heavily weighted toward defense. Growing up in the 1960s, half of baseball had an Evan Gattis type starting at catcher; guys who were suspect as fielders but could hit for either average or power (sometimes both). Teams carried three catchers, so it wasn't rare to see a new catcher late in the game if the team had a lead. But with the increasing stress on pitching effectiveness, the catching position has seemed to gravitate toward handling of pitchers and the elimination of mistakes. That works when you can replace the offense somewhere else on the field, but it can really put a dent in a team's offense.
Baseball-wide, catching has become a position that is heavily weighted toward defense. Growing up in the 1960s, half of baseball had an Evan Gattis type starting at catcher; guys who were suspect as fielders but could hit for either average or power (sometimes both). Teams carried three catchers, so it wasn't rare to see a new catcher late in the game if the team had a lead. But with the increasing stress on pitching effectiveness, the catching position has seemed to gravitate toward handling of pitchers and the elimination of mistakes. That works when you can replace the offense somewhere else on the field, but it can really put a dent in a team's offense.
His numbers are going to come crashing down, but its an odd case. Everyone raved about him. Then after about a week in the majors, it turned into ex-braveitis while he was still on the team. Then they just shipped him off as an extra. He's the type of player you want to hang onto and see what you have, imo. He must have slept with Fredi's daughter or something.
I do think it's more-or-less just a strong stretch for Bethancourt (as others have said), and would think we gave up too early IF 50's point wasn't so telling in his particular situation. With the rebuild focused on young pitching, there's just no room for suspect defensive Catchers (you can toss A. J. aside since the majority of the guys in the system now won't ever throw to him) - especially since the perceived issue with CB's defense was his effort.
FWIW, the HR he hit Friday night was an absolute BOMB!!!
FWIW, the HR he hit Friday night was an absolute BOMB!!!
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Hold on thar. I'm not saying it was you in particular, but a ton of folks on this board (and I was not among them) were trashing Bethancourt with relish while he was a Brave for his poor plate discipline and lazy catching habits. He hits four dingers in his new locale and somehow his departure takes on Len Barker proportions in terms of a deal. Lots of revisionist history on the board. I was fine with keeping him and I was fine with trading him, but once the organization sours on a guy (and it appears the souring on Bethancourt was pretty much top-to-bottom), they get moved.
Im referring to how the organization spoke about him publicly. Or thru their mouthpiece, DOB. Not how fans talked about him.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Gotcha. Something must have happened somewhere along the line.
bravos4evr
Still Playing the Waiting Game
I wasn't here of course, but I was of the opinion that the team needed to commit to C-Beth and give him 2 years as the starting catcher to see if he would develop. Instead they'd play him, bench him, play him, Fredi would do his "hot hand" garbage and C-Beth never really got going (and when he did he got benched ) I think a better developmental plan for him would have allowed him to either sink or swim, but I think he needed time on tools at the MLB level.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
Why is Morales still in A ball? I don't understand. He can catch in carolina. Why not challenge his bat when we are desperate for catching?
Maybe we think he has more to work on before he moves up? His BB rate is pretty bad.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I agree with Russ.. he is 21 and can 'work' on that in High A. Herbert needs to catch everyday as does Morales.. They need to be separated.
I'll trust our organization to make the right moves here. There are a lot of things we just don't know behind the scenes.