Chacin About to be Traded to Angels

Chacin is a talented pitcher...

He put up three 2 WAR seasons with the Rockies (in that crazy park)... one of those seasons was a 3.9 WAR.

Obviously he was hurt the last two years but was pitching pretty well for us despite one horrid start which inflated his numbers. I think it was short sighted to deal him so early.

Grilli - I'm fine with that deal as that seemed like a homage deal to put him on a contender... he was going to be released.

Keeping Chacin could have given us good innings and helped not start the clock on some of these young pitchers we're bringing up
 
Chacin presently sports a 4.50 ERA, a 4.02 FIP, a 14.3 HR/FB% and a projected 0.8 WAR finish by both Steamer and ZIPS. This is not a guy with much trade value, especially when he hasn't thrown more than 60 innings since 2013.

There just isn't much there to expect some return of merit had they waited and too much to be concerned about getting no return at all.
 
bravos4evr said:
our terrible offense would not have allowed him to pitch two complete games. Our terrible defense would not have allowed him to post a 3.10 ERA. On the Braves, the only place for his value to go was down as it would have been doubtful he would maintain or improve his numbers on this bad hitting, bad fielding team.
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lets no bring the Braves team into this hypothetical debate... depressing me man!!
 
sturg33 said:
Chacin is a talented pitcher...

He put up three 2 WAR seasons with the Rockies (in that crazy park)... one of those seasons was a 3.9 WAR.

Obviously he was hurt the last two years but was pitching pretty well for us despite one horrid start which inflated his numbers. I think it was short sighted to deal him so early.

Grilli - I'm fine with that deal as that seemed like a homage deal to put him on a contender... he was going to be released.

Keeping Chacin could have given us good innings and helped not start the clock on some of these young pitchers we're bringing up
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I also wouldn't put it past two front offices (with a history of trading with one another and I think Eppler and Coppy go back to NY together) just saying "I'll throw you a bone now and one day when I am in your position, you do the same." It's impossible to explain these things without context.
 
sturg33 said:
Keeping Chacin could have given us good innings and helped not start the clock on some of these young pitchers we're bringing up
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Ignoring the fact that the FO wanted to see what some of these guys have in the minors. You can't start every prospects clock at the same time. They felt some minor league guys were ready, wanted to give them a shot, and Chacin was blocking. you weren't getting much more for him even if he continued his play, and you wouldn't want to take him out of the rotation because then his value is zilch. so they dealt him for a guy they might see something in. it's not that difficult, and we lost very little and probably gained very little. it's like barely worth discussing but i know you gotta whine.
 
chop2chip said:
I also wouldn't put it past two front offices (with a history of trading with one another and I think Eppler and Coppy go back to NY together) just saying "I'll throw you a bone now and one day when I am in your position, you do the same." It's impossible to explain these things without context.
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also very true. who knows what goes on behind the scenes?

besides sturg of course. he def knows.
 
yeezus said:
also very true. who knows what goes on behind the scenes?

besides sturg of course. he def knows.
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Well in that case let's never disagree with anything the front office does. WHO KNOWS WHAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES?

We were probably throwing the LAD a bone with the Olivera deal... hopefully they get us back in a few years
 
How can you make the logical leap from "The Chacin trade was about as good as we could expect" to "I support every single trade done by the front office and will defend them to the death?"

I already got in a tiff about trading Heyward and everyone, pretty much, was unhappy with the Olivera trade and signing Markakis. These deals happen,some good some bad, and of all the one's to get upset about, the Chacin one seems to be kinda silly. He was never going to bring back a prospect.
 
bravos4evr said:
How can you make the logical leap from "The Chacin trade was about as good as we could expect" to "I support every single trade done by the front office and will defend them to the death?"

I already got in a tiff about trading Heyward and everyone, pretty much, was unhappy with the Olivera trade and signing Markakis. These deals happen,some good some bad, and of all the one's to get upset about, the Chacin one seems to be kinda silly. He was never going to bring back a prospect.
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I'm really not upset about the Chacin deal... I just think it was short sighted to deal... certainly not a franchise altering move.

But in case you're new, if you ever disagree with the Braves FO then the usual suspects will come with their pitchforks to their defense
 
I will defend them if they deserve it, and give em **** if they deserve it. I would like to think rational people can see that there doesn't have to be 'homer" or "hater" as the only two options.
 
bravos4evr said:
I will defend them if they deserve it, and give em **** if they deserve it. I would like to think rational people can see that there doesn't have to be 'homer" or "hater" as the only two options.
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I'm not referring to you.

I'm cool with not minding the move... but not sure why it's a big deal if someone think we were too short sighted on it.

I guess then we're just "whining" though and "we don't know what goes on behind the scenes" and "the front office knows more than us" and yada yada yada
 
sturg33 said:
Well in that case let's never disagree with anything the front office does. WHO KNOWS WHAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES?

We were probably throwing the LAD a bone with the Olivera deal... hopefully they get us back in a few years
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Whoa now... who said about not disagreeing? We can agree and disagree with anything we want, but I'll never pretend to think I can do anybody's job better without knowing all the facts.

I don't think GM's should be judged by any individual deal (certainly not minor ones like this). The evaluation should consider the philosophy and the execution of that philosophy. To that end, the John's have been okay (IMO, the philosophy has been great, but the execution has been a mixed bag).
 
sturg33 said:
I don't see much of a difference here...

Chacin is on pace for over 2 WAR this year
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OMG 2 WAR!. Chacin is an average pitcher who gets hurt a lot. He could go down for the season at any given time. Hard to hate this trade, we picked up a guy and flipped him for a project who could work out. If it doesn't we potentially lose out on gain that we don't know if we could have had. Or he could have gotten hrut and we'd have nothing.
 
sturg33 said:
I guess then we're just "whining" though and "we don't know what goes on behind the scenes" and "the front office knows more than us" and yada yada yada
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For me, being objective and an impartial critic just isn't as fun as thinking that your team knows something that the other 29 don't.
 
zitothebrave said:
OMG 2 WAR!. Chacin is an average pitcher who gets hurt a lot. He could go down for the season at any given time. Hard to hate this trade, we picked up a guy and flipped him for a project who could work out. If it doesn't we potentially lose out on gain that we don't know if we could have had. Or he could have gotten hrut and we'd have nothing.
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Something else to keep in mind - Chacin was replaced in the rotation by Williams.

Perez: 0.7 bWAR

Chacin: 0.5 bWAR

Now sure, you could make an argument that Chacin could have been kept for depth in the event somebody struggled or injury (very valid argument). But I would much prefer that our young unheralded pitchers (Gant, Perez, Jenkins, Ellis, etc.) get a chance in a lost year over veteran retread because you never know when someone will come out of nowhere and establish themselves.

I wish we would be more consistent with that approach with our lineup, but choosing Perez over Chacin was a good start
 
To be honest Im hoping Perez can have a great June so we can send him out of town for value as I don't have much confidence in him long term with his contact rates, low K and high BB rates.
 
Jhoulys Chacin wasn't going to have much value either way. May as well trade him for a piece we like if we can get it. Pretty much all there is to it. Either way the deal is pretty inconsequential.
 
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