Charlie Morton extended!

Russ2dollas said:
I think you have to offer Duvall and Joc the option. I doubt both take it. Since Snit won't play Joc everyday, I'm not sure he wants to stay. We need OF and I feel like both guys are basically guaranteed to out perform those deals. The opportunity cost is that you are tying up money in OK players and not getting impact bats. I know Duvall is going to be a 3 WAR guy this year, but I'm not calling him impact.

The question is, who are they going to get? Is Blackmon going to opt out, be an impact guy and sign with the braves? I think no to all 3. If you had Joc and Duvall, would that stop you from getting Marte? I don't think it's enough money to stop us or years. Just unlikely we are the high bidder on Marte. Castellanos will want more than we'll pay. Conforto may be an option, but his production causes some concern.
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As an aside, how many teams have 3 WAR players hitting 7th or 8th???
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
Assuming Duvall finishes the season with new highs in HRs and RBI, an acceptable OPS and BA doesnt fall thru the floor, does anyone expect him to exercise his side of he option?
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Selective reading again, as usual.

You tack on an extra year and bump his salary, but you didn't bother to read that part. If the Braves offer him 2 or 3 years at $8-$10 million, the chances he turns it down are minimal - he's the only person that's done a worse job than Freddie when it comes to disguising how much he wants to stay.
 
clvclv said:
Read closer - you re-sign the better player (Rosario) with Pederson's money. He, Duvall, and Acuna play every day on the corners or DH, and you get Pache or Heredia's defense in CF everyday - the Braves still control Heredia through 2023 if Pache still needs more time in Gwinnett, and Duvall can be the emergency CF if they don't want Acuna logging innings there. The addition of the DH allows you to play either Pache or Heredia in CF without losing any offense, and the fact that Duvall and Rosario can play either corner allows you to give all the OFs a "day off" every week without actually taking their bats out of the lineup.
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Joc is owed 2.5 million if we do not offer. The option year is 10 million. I would sign him to a year, 10 million dollar deal unless the Braves are broke.

Unless you think the Braves can acquire a stud OF and/or Ozuna will be back, then the braves should be looking at bringing back Duvall, Pederson and Rosario. Acuna isn't back until the All star break. They need 3 OF and probably a DH. Pache and Waters do not look ready.

I think Ozuna's money will be off the books next year with a suspension. So if you can get those 3 guys to be your OF for 25-30 million on one year deals, I think that is a win. All 3 can fake CF. When Acuna comes back you can rotate and rest guys.
 
I would love for them both to be signed back. The problem would be playing time. Maybe this changes with a trade, but next year will really be time for Pache and Waters to be promoted.

If the DH is added, it makes this an easy decision.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Joc is owed 2.5 million if we do not offer. The option year is 10 million. I would sign him to a year, 10 million dollar deal unless the Braves are broke.

Unless you think the Braves can acquire a stud OF and/or Ozuna will be back, then the braves should be looking at bringing back Duvall, Pederson and Rosario. Acuna isn't back until the All star break. They need 3 OF and probably a DH. Pache and Waters do not look ready.

I think Ozuna's money will be off the books next year with a suspension. So if you can get those 3 guys to be your OF for 25-30 million on one year deals, I think that is a win. All 3 can fake CF. When Acuna comes back you can rotate and rest guys.
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JMO But until clv comes alive this morning and delivers his usual fantasy league opinion Ill submit this. The Dodgers let Joc go BECAUSE he wasnt an everyday player. The Cubs followed suit. Therefore, IMO Joc has not shown the Braves he is everyday either. Your second paragraph my only question is "I havent heard that Acuna will be out that long" Sorry to hear it now.
It seems as of now 50 and I are the only ones in agreement that if Duvall finishes strong he will be going for bigger money at his age and the DH being emminet in the NL.
All this brings me to Soler. With the Braves interest in past years and what he has shown so far in Atlanta and add in his age I would think something along the lines of Ozunas contract would be enticing to Jorge.
My appologies for writing like clv but some of his ...t seems to have rubbed off. His habits, not his intellect since apparently I cant read at his level.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I think you have to offer Duvall and Joc the option. I doubt both take it. Since Snit won't play Joc everyday, I'm not sure he wants to stay. We need OF and I feel like both guys are basically guaranteed to out perform those deals. The opportunity cost is that you are tying up money in OK players and not getting impact bats. I know Duvall is going to be a 3 WAR guy this year, but I'm not calling him impact.

The question is, who are they going to get? Is Blackmon going to opt out, be an impact guy and sign with the braves? I think no to all 3. If you had Joc and Duvall, would that stop you from getting Marte? I don't think it's enough money to stop us or years. Just unlikely we are the high bidder on Marte. Castellanos will want more than we'll pay. Conforto may be an option, but his production causes some concern.
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It's obvious since the deadline the Snitker views Soler and Duvall as everyday players. The whole Ozuna situation leaves much to be determined. If he's gone, I think the Braves make a reasonable offer to Soler. Soler has done enough that his market is going to be fairly hot over the winter.

The Braves aren't going to pay Joc Pederson $10 MM to be a part-time player. That leaves Rosario as a possibility, but I only low-ball him.

As per Duvall's option, this is probably going to be his last chance to get a multi-year deal in the $10 MM AAV range, so I wouldn't be surprised if he opts out. He may love playing for the Braves more than life itself, but any performance hiccup in 2022 and he's back on a year-to-year basis. Snitker would probably pay him $40 MM AAV (and spoon with him after games), but I don't know if Anthopoulos will.

The temporary stalling (let's hope it's only temporary) of Pache and Waters really turns things into a jumble. I know some disagree with me, but I think the potential season-long exposure of not having a legitimate CF is a problem.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
JMO But until clv comes alive this morning and delivers his usual fantasy league opinion Ill submit this. The Dodgers let Joc go BECAUSE he wasnt an everyday player. The Cubs followed suit. Therefore, IMO Joc has not shown the Braves he is everyday either. Your second paragraph my only question is "I havent heard that Acuna will be out that long" Sorry to hear it now.
It seems as of now 50 and I are the only ones in agreement that if Duvall finishes strong he will be going for bigger money at his age and the DH being emminet in the NL.
All this brings me to Soler. With the Braves interest in past years and what he has shown so far in Atlanta and add in his age I would think something along the lines of Ozunas contract would be enticing to Jorge.
My appologies for writing like clv but some of his ...t seems to have rubbed off. His habits, not his intellect since apparently I cant read at his level.
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No worries. I understand that Joc and Duvall may perfer free agency.

My point is you offer the money. i'd like to have them at those rates. If they decline, then we don't owe them any money.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
JMO But until clv comes alive this morning and delivers his usual fantasy league opinion Ill submit this. The Dodgers let Joc go BECAUSE he wasnt an everyday player. The Cubs followed suit. Therefore, IMO Joc has not shown the Braves he is everyday either. Your second paragraph my only question is "I havent heard that Acuna will be out that long" Sorry to hear it now.
It seems as of now 50 and I are the only ones in agreement that if Duvall finishes strong he will be going for bigger money at his age and the DH being emminet in the NL.
All this brings me to Soler. With the Braves interest in past years and what he has shown so far in Atlanta and add in his age I would think something along the lines of Ozunas contract would be enticing to Jorge.
My appologies for writing like clv but some of his ...t seems to have rubbed off. His habits, not his intellect since apparently I cant read at his level.
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Just my view but all of these guy's markets are going to be less than folks think.

I'm not sure any of them sign a better deal than they agreed to this season.

They are all kind of who they are and it's not any different from what GMs previously thought. If anything, Soler has hurt his value, I'm not sure he was in line for Ozuna deal before that.

--maybe if prices were depressed and rebound this year, but I'm not sure I really see that just yet.
 
Southcack77 said:
Just my view but all of these guy's markets are going to be less than folks think.

I'm not sure any of them sign a better deal than they agreed to this season.

They are all kind of who they are and it's not any different from what GMs previously thought. If anything, Soler has hurt his value, I'm not sure he was in line for Ozuna deal before that.

--maybe if prices were depressed and rebound this year, but I'm not sure I really see that just yet.
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I don't think that Soler would get an Ozuna-level deal, but he's likely to do better than the $8 MM AAV he's getting paid in 2021.

It's probably going to be like last off-season, when everyone thought salaries would be depressed and "Voila!" big contracts were doled out nonetheless. Most of those big contracts went to the premier guys and the middle-class player will likely still have to settle for one-or-two-year deals. I think that's where the calculations get murky for both teams and players.
 
I like Soler, and I'd like (and I imagine the Braves would like) to have him back next year as a part-time corner outfielder and DH. I also suspect that's going to be really tough to pull off, and I imagine the most likely outcome is that Soler gets a bigger contract than we're willing to pay, we give him a hearty handshake, thank him for his good work and tell him we'll keep an eye on him moving forward for opportunities to reunite.
 
You can put me in the camp who doesn't want to bring back any of Duvall, Pederson, Rosario or Soler for next year.

Duvall - He just turned 33, so he'll be 34 next year. Not someone I'd want to commit multiple years for. Fine for a 1 year stop gap, but I don't see his value being any higher than it was last off season, and the Braves decided to cut ties.

Pederson - Obviously he's a part time player at this point, and being utilized by the Braves as such. Would be too expensive to pay his option to have him on the bench most of the time.

Soler - Even with his hot streak in Atlanta, he's still well into negative WAR range for 2021. Maybe if there is a DH you consider it, since he rates so poorly in the field, but even then I don't see wanting to give a multi year deal here.

Rosario - Another guy who grades poorly on defense and hasn't really been great as a hitter this year either.
 
NYCBrave said:
You can put me in the camp who doesn't want to bring back any of Duvall, Pederson, Rosario or Soler for next year.

Duvall - He just turned 33, so he'll be 34 next year. Not someone I'd want to commit multiple years for. Fine for a 1 year stop gap, but I don't see his value being any higher than it was last off season, and the Braves decided to cut ties.

Pederson - Obviously he's a part time player at this point, and being utilized by the Braves as such. Would be too expensive to pay his option to have him on the bench most of the time.

Soler - Even with his hot streak in Atlanta, he's still well into negative WAR range for 2021. Maybe if there is a DH you consider it, since he rates so poorly in the field, but even then I don't see wanting to give a multi year deal here.

Rosario - Another guy who grades poorly on defense and hasn't really been great as a hitter this year either.
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What would you propose? For opening day we need 3 OF and maybe a DH.

Bryant, Conforto and Marte?
 
MadduxFanII said:
I like Soler, and I'd like (and I imagine the Braves would like) to have him back next year as a part-time corner outfielder and DH. I also suspect that's going to be really tough to pull off, and I imagine the most likely outcome is that Soler gets a bigger contract than we're willing to pay, we give him a hearty handshake, thank him for his good work and tell him we'll keep an eye on him moving forward for opportunities to reunite.
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I expect Soler to get a multi year deal. IF MLB comes to a new CBA most expect the universal DH. Therefore his market has expanded significantly.

Maybe he wants a one Josh Donaldson deal to prove he's an impact bat, then we might be in it. I don't see how we can give out big multiyear deals with FF(hopefully) and Ozuna on the books long term.
 
Russ2dollas said:
What would you propose? For opening day we need 3 OF and maybe a DH.

Bryant, Conforto and Marte?
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I don't have a proposal at this time, still have to see how things play out, and also have an understanding of exactly how much we have to spend. Before I'd even consider anything, I need to see if Freeman is re-signed.
 
NYCBrave said:
You can put me in the camp who doesn't want to bring back any of Duvall, Pederson, Rosario or Soler for next year.

Duvall - He just turned 33, so he'll be 34 next year. Not someone I'd want to commit multiple years for. Fine for a 1 year stop gap, but I don't see his value being any higher than it was last off season, and the Braves decided to cut ties.

Pederson - Obviously he's a part time player at this point, and being utilized by the Braves as such. Would be too expensive to pay his option to have him on the bench most of the time.

Soler - Even with his hot streak in Atlanta, he's still well into negative WAR range for 2021. Maybe if there is a DH you consider it, since he rates so poorly in the field, but even then I don't see wanting to give a multi year deal here.

Rosario - Another guy who grades poorly on defense and hasn't really been great as a hitter this year either.
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I think Soler and Rosario were brought in to audition for the upcoming DH position. I applaud AA for getting a head start with 15 vacancies coming up with new CBA and knowing competition will be significant.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I expect Soler to get a multi year deal. IF MLB comes to a new CBA most expect the universal DH. Therefore his market has expanded significantly.

Maybe he wants a one Josh Donaldson deal to prove he's an impact bat, then we might be in it. I don't see how we can give out big multiyear deals with FF(hopefully) and Ozuna on the books long term.
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Donaldson got a good portion of his money with his glove. Soler does not have that glove and Im sure he knows it. Taking home field attendance this year there is still hope FF comes on board. I think AA and all GMs along with Manfred know what is likely to happen with Ozuna and Bauer. With that Im a bit surprised that Mortons deal got done before determining how much FF gets (or doesnt get)
 
Folks blinded by Duvall's power numbers are exactly why advanced stats allowed teams to gain a market advantage.

Despite all that power, his sub-.300 OBP makes him a roughly average offensive player. He fits well on this roster because the OF was so bad the Braves weren't even fielding average hitters.

Duvall is the perfect deadline acquisition to fill a gaping hole cheaply, not someone to plan around from opening day.
 
For the mutual option guys, if the Braves pick up their end do they have to pay the buyout if the players declines his?
 
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