zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
He has but one can argue that it has a lot to do with the talent aroudn him compared to Florida.
Chris Johnson - NL Batting Leader
- Thread starter GovClintonTyree
- Start date
He has but one can argue that it has a lot to do with the talent aroudn him compared to Florida.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Let's say stats are 80% accurate. Leaves plenty for room for error. That's still way more accurate than your opinion.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
That's evasive. You think you have a superior argument because you cite a made-up metric that even its creators agree is flawed. IIRC, they say Freddie sucks, too. And Freddie's real good, if a bit short on range.
Wait, so does lineup protection matter?
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Because Johnson is finally getting to play everyday for us and has been markedly better since he got that opportunity.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
How many times does he need to point out that any defensive metric you use says CJ is bad defensively? If they didn't all agree you might have something of a case, but they do so case closed. They're not all wrong. Bottom line: Since 2010, CJ is the worst defensive player at the hot corner.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Beautiful.
They do, don't they? "X cannot sustain that level of productivity. He will regress to the mean. Therefore, we should trade him and acquire Y, who has hidden productivity which will manifest itself once we acquire him."
I guess you didn't notice that I said outside of a formula that isn't close to being accurate. You can't accurately evaluate defensive performance using numbers. Do you realize how much subjective bias is placed into these?
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
I agree that he's not Brooks. I think all the formulas overstate the value or cost of the defensive component, at a least partly because those metrics are volatile and subjective. He's been fine over there, but my point is that even if he had not, he wouldn't give back half his hitting value with his glove, which is where Zito is going.
Thats all anyone is saying. Not one person has even said that Johnson is an average defensive third baseman. However, some on here want everyone to believe he is the worst of all time and I just don't think thats the case.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Me, too. I like selective guys, and he doesn't walk much. But he doesn't seem to take a lot of bad swings. Kind of like he's extremely aggressive and successful within the zone.
I know it looks like he has an excellent swing plane so that he's got a much longer/larger possibility of making solid contact. Kind of tHe opposite of BJ, who needs to time it up perfectly or he fouls it back (and then waves at the next slider away).
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
The only thing they measure for 1B is range. So of course they'll be negative on Freeman. Freeman's biggest attribute is his fielding of throws which isn't measurable.
UZR and DRS if they agree on a player it's usually true, for example, both agree that Jason Heyward is one of the best defensive OF in baseball, both agree Simmons is the best defensive SS in baseball, both agree Longoria is a stud, I could continue but you get my drift. Pretty much anyone with half a brain would agree with all those statements by watchign the games. They also both agree Chris Johnson is a bad defensive 3B.
UZR has this nifty built in feature that tracks what boosts and busts a player's value. Johnson isn't that terrible on errors. His costing on errors is better than guys like Alvarez or Moosetacos, but those guys have superior range.
These are plays that guys close to average make
http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=29070821
http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=28772715
http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=29174609
I can't see Johnson making a single one of those plays. Maybe the Polanco one since he didn't have to move before diving.
Much less plays liek the top guys make
http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=29201607
Johnson's "highlight" play was not booting a routine chopper in the 9th to throw out gimpy Beltran.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
The way y'all talk is as if defensive metrics are almost useless. Obviously, I don't agree with your assertions there. But I will give CJ credit for his career year with the bat. As I said, CJ has made up for what he lacks in defense with his bat thus far. But if we didn't have Simmons at short we couldn't play bad defenders and second and third and be where we are. Simmons is having a record breaking year defensively.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
It's usually easier to hit with men on, opens up more gaps in the "power alleys"
So thats a yes then? Lineup protection does matter?
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Good point.
I've never said they were useless. I'm saying its part of the total picture. Again, nobody is saying Johnson is average. I just don't believe he is as bad as the defensive metrics make him out to be.