Christian Bethancourt optioned to Gwinnett

gilesfan said:
Finding out whether Bethancourt is a major league serviceable backstop is far more important than figuring out if Folty is going to be a starter or a reliever. Folty has a good fastball, but it's not like he's a super prospect and there aren't a number of pitchers behind him that could replace him. We have nothing in terms of catchers and in a self described rebuilding year. It makes no sense to play a veteran scrub over a guy that you really need to find out what you have with him. You aren't going to find out much playing a guy every 4 days.

And for the crowd wanting to win, it's not like AJ is going to get more than maybe 1 win over Bethancourt over the course of 130 games.
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The point is, right now he's not. Not any better than a hundred other single A guys with decent defense that can't hit. No reason to play him in Atlanta to figure that out.

Their plan at catcher this year was too ambitious. Need to sign somebody this offseason for '16 and trade/develop somebody long term.
 
gilesfan said:
That means nothing. How long did Kent/Bonds play for the Giants? Or Giles with the Braves?
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It means nothing? It certainly means something.
You cannot compare it to Bonds because he's a top 5 hitter ever. Of course he stuck around no matter what.
Ozzie Guillen also said AJ was "great for him."
I have asshole friends, doesn't mean I don't like them.

Saying "no one likes AJ and no one has EVER(!!) liked throwing to him" is just really silly and untrue. That's the point.
 
But I know how it goes with some people. If the Braves make a move it's the wrong one, no matter how obvious it is.
 
zbhargrove said:
Well it's annoying when someone calls others asinine when the comments are reasonable and not at all asinine. I was fine talking level headed and actually discussing until the asinine statement was put out there for no reason.
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I don't get into message board back and forth. It's an argument of sorts and that's what it is. If asinine hurts your feelings I'll be more selective going forward.
 
yeezus said:
But I know how it goes with some people. If the Braves make a move it's the wrong one, no matter how obvious it is.
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Actually, some moves have gotten a lot of praise from those of us who have mostly been critical of Hart. The Kimbrel and Banuelos trades come to mind.
 
nsacpi said:
Actually, some moves have gotten a lot of praise from those of us who have mostly been critical of Hart. The Kimbrel and Banuelos trades come to mind.
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Not really talking about you, you're pretty fair i think. i was more so talking about giles directly. it's pretty obvious he's critical of almost everything and is consistently very vocal about all the wrong moves that have been made (while being relatively quiet about the moves he likes).
 
GovClintonTyree said:
The point is, right now he's not. Not any better than a hundred other single A guys with decent defense that can't hit. No reason to play him in Atlanta to figure that out.

Their plan at catcher this year was too ambitious. Need to sign somebody this offseason for '16 and trade/develop somebody long term.
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Bethancourt isn't better than a hundred single A guys. Read that to yourself again.

Bethancourt hasn't even played a half of season and you guys are making judgments on him. This is incredible. He very well might not end up being anything (I doubt he's ever less than a backup MLB catcher); however what is the point of not playing him? You know what you get from AJ (not much); at the very least you take a small drop in production and a better understanding of what you have for the future. In a rebuilding year, how does that not make sense?
 
gilesfan said:
Bethancourt isn't better than a hundred single A guys. Read that to yourself again.

Bethancourt hasn't even played a half of season and you guys are making judgments on him. This is incredible. He very well might not end up being anything (I doubt he's ever less than a backup MLB catcher); however what is the point of not playing him? You know what you get from AJ (not much); at the very least you take a small drop in production and a better understanding of what you have for the future. In a rebuilding year, how does that not make sense?
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CB should play. Folty should play. Just like we said Maybin should play.

When rosters expand Man Ban and Wisler should play. Even if we have to sit or skip other starters. We need to know what we have.

BIG decisions in this off season. Goal to be good next year and very big in 17. Have to play guys to know.
 
We're 3.5 games out of first. Bethancourt's defense hasn't been nearly good enough to make up for his poor bat. He needs more time. I have no idea why that's so tough to understand. And I'm pretty sure our pitcher's numbers are better throwing to AJ this year.

See if Beth can fix things in the minors. This is simple.
 
And there's always the possibility of something behind the scenes going on with CB. I want to see what he's got, too. But he has plenty of time.
 
yeezus said:
We're 3.5 games out of first. Bethancourt's defense hasn't been nearly good enough to make up for his poor bat. He needs more time. I have no idea why that's so tough to understand. And I'm pretty sure our pitcher's numbers are better throwing to AJ this year.

See if Beth can fix things in the minors. This is simple.
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We aren't trying to win this year and shouldn't change our plans just because our division sucks. This is not a good team.
 
However, Baseball Prospectus writer Keith Woolner found through statistical analysis of catcher performance that "catcher game-calling isn't a statistically significant skill".[2] Sabermetrician Bill James, too, performed research into CERA, finding that while it is possible that catchers may have a significant effect on a pitching staff, there is too much yearly variation in CERA for it to be a reliable indicator of ability.[1] James used simulations of catchers with assigned defensive values to directly compare CERAs, which influenced Woolner to perform similar simulations but instead using weighted events to calculate pitchers' runs per plate appearance.[1] Through this, Woolner concluded that even if catchers do have an effect on pitchers' abilities to prevent runs, it is undetectable and thus has no practical usage.[1] He also stated that "the hypothesis most consistent with the available facts appears to be that catchers do not have a significant effect on pitcher performance".[1]

I don't even know what the numbers are, but it's pointless to look up.

AJ is a terrible defensive catcher, this isn't something new. Besides his poor framing skills, he allows more passed balls/wild pitches. He has only thrown out 17%-18% of baserunners over the past 2 years. (league average-28%). Bethancourt has thrown out 35%.
 
Should have just played CB from the onset. Very dissapointed in that and that CB couldn't overcome it.
 
thewupk said:
We aren't trying to win this year and shouldn't change our plans just because our division sucks. This is not a good team.
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but why wave the white flag at this moment? we have plenty of time with CB. if we're bad enough, we'll fall out of the race and CB will be back and playing every day (if he doesn't stink in AAA). I'm not advocating being buyers in the least.
 
yeezus said:
And there's always the possibility of something behind the scenes going on with CB. I want to see what he's got, too. But he has plenty of time.
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I think there is. From the outset the front office has made loud noises about not handing the job to CB. There seems to be a thought that he's lazy.

I think he should play. I don't think the spot starts help his development.

But I get the argument that he's not catching well. If he was playing elite defense and hitting like this, I'd say sending him down was a travesty. But he's not. They want the baseline to be 70 defense with 70 or 80 arm. Not 50 defense with 30 hitting.
 
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