CrimeDog247
Spring Training Invitee
Per Ken Rosenthal: Trade between Pirates and Astros. Musgrove, Feliz, Martin, and Moran supposedly heading to Pirates. Good haul for good young SP.
Cole to Astros
- Thread starter CrimeDog247
- Start date
Tapate50
Well-known member
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I think it's an OK return for Pittsburgh. Two controllable long term arms that are already in the ML - Musgrove can start, Felize might be able to close. Martin had a good year with the bat. And Moran was their 5th best prospect.
I think I would have done a 1 for 1 of Cole for Tucker though if necessary.
Astros FO is really good.
I think I would have done a 1 for 1 of Cole for Tucker though if necessary.
Astros FO is really good.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
While I agree it is better to get one prospect with a lot of upside than a collection of lower prospect guys, this is not a bad trade for the Pirates. The four guys they got are all likely to contribute at the major league level. 3 of them have already reached the majors, and they all have a lot of years of control.
Oklahomabrave
Anytime Now Frankie...
Yeah the approach is evident, but man I am not a fan of any of the players they received. For the price paid I would even looked into Cole.
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
Houston’s rotation is real good now. Astros have to be favored to repeat.
Now we just have to hope that one or two of the many arms we acquired turns into above average pitchers. As of now Gohara looks to be the only possibility that’s broken the MLB level.
What wasn't to like about Newcomb? Maybe not someone you can peg as a TOR starter like Gohara but he was damn good in his opening stint last year. His stuff is basically elite level. At his current command level he is a MOR starter. A decrease in walk rate and he becomes TOR.
The Astros just got Cole for very little, how on earth is this trade an example of what you just said? The Astros didn't even give up a single top 100 prospect for him (Musgrove was mid 80s to 90ish before he went to the majors, but is a #4/#5 back of the rotation piece at this point).
Musgrove and moran are MLB players with almost full control and scouts seem to like Feliz a lot. Cole has two years left and has had injury issues. I think this is a real good trade for the pirates.
BeanieAntics
Arbitration Eligible
So you think that Newcomb is a mid rotation starter (i.e. a #3) with his 5.1 BB/9? I'm sorry, but I just don't see that. And his stuff isn't elite either. He has an above average fastball and a good curve. His changeup has a long way to go before it even approaches league average. I'm not saying he is a bust or anything, but calling him a 3 without him making any substantial improvements seems silly
Exactly. I’d like to see Newk moved to the bullpen. I think that he could focus more on the fastball if he only had to worry about going 1-2 innings. The walk rate is the scary thing. If he keeps the wall rate where it is, he’s no better than Blair or Wisler. He’ll be back in AAA before June.
Encheff did a great analysis on Newcomb and he was even surprised how good his stuff graded out. Newcomb has all the tools to be TOR but most likely he is a good #3
Here is the post that Enscheff had in the following thread (which is a great analysis of the Braves pitchers
Newcomb: 65/70 FA, 60 CU, 70 SL, 50 CH
Newk has TOR stuff. Period. If he continues to post a BB/9 of 5+ he is the most frustrating "stuff #4" in the game. If he improves to Gio-level control (~3.5 BB/9) he is a TOR stud. My money is on him never getting the BBs under control, unfortunately.
Gohara: 75 FA, 50 SL, 45 CH
Gohara is a beast with a closer's FA. The SL grade is misleading due to the fact it is the average of 2 different pitches. The CH is usable. Gohara is already a 2-pitch #3 SP, and as he refines his command and CH he will grow into a TOR stud.
Its very clear from this analysis that Newk has a ceiling that we should all be excited about.
Newcomb: 65/70 FA, 60 CU, 70 SL, 50 CH
Newk has TOR stuff. Period. If he continues to post a BB/9 of 5+ he is the most frustrating "stuff #4" in the game. If he improves to Gio-level control (~3.5 BB/9) he is a TOR stud. My money is on him never getting the BBs under control, unfortunately.
Gohara: 75 FA, 50 SL, 45 CH
Gohara is a beast with a closer's FA. The SL grade is misleading due to the fact it is the average of 2 different pitches. The CH is usable. Gohara is already a 2-pitch #3 SP, and as he refines his command and CH he will grow into a TOR stud.
Its very clear from this analysis that Newk has a ceiling that we should all be excited about.
Managuarantano's Volunteers
<B><I>The Artist Formally Known as <P>Ventura's St
Newcomb could walk 6-7 per 9 and be better than Wisler/Blair because they never strike anyone out.
BeanieAntics
Arbitration Eligible
Here is the post that Enscheff had in the following thread (which is a great analysis of the Braves pitchers
Newcomb: 65/70 FA, 60 CU, 70 SL, 50 CH
Newk has TOR stuff. Period. If he continues to post a BB/9 of 5+ he is the most frustrating "stuff #4" in the game. If he improves to Gio-level control (~3.5 BB/9) he is a TOR stud. My money is on him never getting the BBs under control, unfortunately.
Gohara: 75 FA, 50 SL, 45 CH
Gohara is a beast with a closer's FA. The SL grade is misleading due to the fact it is the average of 2 different pitches. The CH is usable. Gohara is already a 2-pitch #3 SP, and as he refines his command and CH he will grow into a TOR stud.
Its very clear from this analysis that Newk has a ceiling that we should all be excited about.
Oh I'm definitely excited about Newk's ceiling, I just don't think where he currently stands he is a #3. I would be surprised if he could sustain being a 4 if he doesn't improve his walk rate. Maybe I am underrating his changeup and fastball, I'll have to go back and look at the data Enscheff was looking at. I was thinking his fastball was in the 60ish range with a changeup that was a 40. A 50 on his change seems pretty high, but maybe I was wrong. But yeah, if he can bring down his walk rate by a walk and a half /9, there is no doubt he could be a stud. Producing a 4.19 FIP with a 5.1 walk rate is no easy task
Musgrove and Moran are MLB players, but not particularly good ones. Feliz has pitched two full seasons and has an ERA over 5 despite having a superb K rate. There is very little upside in this trade for the Pirates, they got filler/borderline MLB players for a guy who was a genuine Ace before last season. Cole has a bunch of risk, but so did Gray and the A's got a much better haul for him despite similar injury concerns and recent performance.
Unless Moran manages to duplicate his numbers repeating AAA last year in the majors this trade is a big pile of meh for the Pirates, and the upside for the Astros is huge by contrast.