College

57Brave said:
"trivia" right?
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I said trivial actually, but that's not my argument at all in this thread.

You're welcome to try and argue with me in the other thread specifically about my statement that evolution is fairly trivial knowledge. If you can make a coherent argument I'll reply. Maybe see if you can find a meme.
 
The trivia (singular trivium) are three lower Artes Liberales, i.e. grammar, logic and rhetoric. These were the topics of basic education, foundational to the quadrivia of higher education, and hence the material of basic education and an important building block for all undergraduates. The word trivia was also used to describe a place where three roads met in Ancient Rome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivia

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Meaning the Liberal Arts are building blocks to a rounded education as well as a rounded life.
How does one understand ethics without first having a foundation of Pilosophy? How does one learn to improvise or understand abstractions without Art or Music.
I think peole have it backwards seeing college only as a way to advance a career in terms of earning power
 
Currently in school. Working on my Associates right now. GI Bill pays for school and I get a monthly housing allowance while I am enrolled in courses. 12 credit hours a semester is full time and thus a full housing allowance per month. Summer semester is 7 credit hours to get the full housing allowance. I also work part time about 25 hours a week for a very small amount over the minimum wage in Colorado. I know plenty of people with 4 year degrees and the majority have not found a good job or in some cases a job that relates to their degree. Additionally most have some sort of student loans they are paying off. If you ask me college is not worth it. The only reason I am going is because A) my schooling is paid for up to a Bachelor's degree and B) I get paid to take courses.

I'd be stupid not to attend college based on those two reasons. If I weren't getting free school and a payment each month, I highly doubt I would be or would have went to school.
 
Too bad our schools is ran more like a business now because I really love how the Germans have theirs system set up. You all alluded to it, especially Bedel and Weso with trade/vocational schools should be more prominent than traditional schools. Why are you forced to take History 303 if you want a degree in Electrical Engineering?

We have two universities within 20 miles of each other, but the vocational school is more prominent because of "trade" skills they offer and people can actually afford it.
 
57Brave said:
The trivia (singular trivium) are three lower Artes Liberales, i.e. grammar, logic and rhetoric. These were the topics of basic education, foundational to the quadrivia of higher education, and hence the material of basic education and an important building block for all undergraduates. The word trivia was also used to describe a place where three roads met in Ancient Rome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivia

///////////////////////////

Meaning the Liberal Arts are building blocks to a rounded education as well as a rounded life.
How does one understand ethics without first having a foundation of Pilosophy? How does one learn to improvise or understand abstractions without Art or Music.
I think peole have it backwards seeing college only as a way to advance a career in terms of earning power
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And in classical models I'm familiar with the trivium comes before what we'd call college. Of course one could begin focusing more keenly on one of the arts or sciences then.
 
57Brave said:
The trivia (singular trivium) are three lower Artes Liberales, i.e. grammar, logic and rhetoric. These were the topics of basic education, foundational to the quadrivia of higher education, and hence the material of basic education and an important building block for all undergraduates. The word trivia was also used to describe a place where three roads met in Ancient Rome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivia

///////////////////////////

Meaning the Liberal Arts are building blocks to a rounded education as well as a rounded life.
How does one understand ethics without first having a foundation of Pilosophy? How does one learn to improvise or understand abstractions without Art or Music.
I think peole have it backwards seeing college only as a way to advance a career in terms of earning power
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You're missing my point. I agree with you for the most part, although I think one can learn about ethics without taking a college course, which is why I strongly believe schools should offer these classes to everyone in high school using public funding. Kids in high school should have to take a class on logic/philosophy, art and music appreciation, financial planning, phyisical health, etc. Need to enhance public education in a big way.

I'm just saying that they shouldn't be forced to pay for these classes when attending a university. That's just my opinion. They should have already taken these classes in high school. Kids should be able to choose what they want to study in a university to earn a degree. If you want to study engineering then take the appropriate classes. I'm not saying take away all general courses, but I think they can be reasonably minimized. And I would still force students to expose themselves to art, philosophy, etc. but I'd do it in a completely different way. I'd force them to attend a certain amount of events per year. Maybe make them visit an art museum, stuff like that.
 
And you are missing mine. For instance, one does not learn ethics --- one understands

I know it is way different today but when I was a high schooler we learned mathamatics (degrees of Algebra, Geometry and should you be able to grasp those elementry Calculus) , Social Studies (history ,geogrraphy etc) English (composition and literature) we were required to take a foreign language and Physical Education and a Science (Chemistry, degrees of Bioloogy etc) .
That pretty much filled up the day
To your point many kids today graduate high school with 1/2 a year college credits under their belts

Now where when and how do you propose teaching kids Philosophy, Money Management, Art Appreciation etc etc etc.
Most schools have cut Phys Ed , shop classes Home Ec classes, Music classes and Art calsses

With the slashes in school monies and the tax cuts so many fawn over -- do we pay for the wish list you suggest?
What about those that don't have that 1/2 year college?
 
None of those issues should be difficult to overcome. Just need to do some campaigning. I honestly don't see your issues as a big problem.

I feel like if it wasn't me posting the idea then you would be in support of it. More free education for everyone and lower student loan burden, plus more people gain a better education. In my proposal everyone who finishes High School gains a pretty strong foundation of practical and abstract knowledge. The foundation should be finished by the time kids graduate high school.

The key is to just make sure that in their Junior and Senior years students get a strong foundation so they don't need to take those classes in college.
 
I'm just glad I solved this problem on chopcountry.com, where nobody of any importance (In regards to schooling) will ever read it. In the meantime my school superintendents can't figure out where to send a friggin school bus.
 
weso1 said:
One thing that might help is to cut some of the fat in college education. I know I've said this before but it bears repeating. Too many pointless classes that are outside your degree. Colleges should be more like vocational schools. In that you take mostly just the necessary classes.

I don't need art, music, PE, philosophy, etc. in college. All of that stuff should be learned in high school where it's publicly funded.
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You think philosophy should be taught in high school? Good luck with that.
 
Metaphysicist said:
You think philosophy should be taught in high school? Good luck with that.
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I try a bit with my 10th graders. I teach Early Modern Lit, History & Philosophy. We cover the basic divisions, a really brief overview of the general flow of the history, and then we take a look at Pascal, Descartes, the main Empiricists and Rousseau. I never get as far as I'd like.
 
Community college was $11/unit when I started in 2002. By 2004 it was $32/unit. I just checked the site and it's now $46/unit.

$132 to take a full semester in 2002.

$384 to take a full semester in 2004.

$552 to take a full semester in 2014.

At least it stopped going up exponentially like it did when I was there..
 
Metaphysicist said:
You think philosophy should be taught in high school? Good luck with that.
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Absolutely I think so. Secondary schools should offer as many critical thinking classes as possible. I'm sure someone could come up with a curriculum that isn't overbearing.

They do it in Europe.
 
I took a relative philosophy class in high school. It was for the international baccalaureate program. Wasn't called Philosophy. Was called " theory of knowledge ".
 
ESP47 said:
Community college was $11/unit when I started in 2002. By 2004 it was $32/unit. I just checked the site and it's now $46/unit.

$132 to take a full semester in 2002.

$384 to take a full semester in 2004.

$552 to take a full semester in 2014.

At least it stopped going up exponentially like it did when I was there..
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Probably inflation.
 
Our school model is intended to include philosophy in/with our Ancient-Middle-Ages, Early Modern, and Modern history courses and then we have a specific Ethics course as well. Our American history course is also to include a fairly heavy does of political philosophy.
 
KeithLockhart said:
It sort of did thanks to my hyperthyroidism. Memory retention was almost nonexistent in high school so learning through reading was nearly impossible.
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Buzz_Killington.jpg
 
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