jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Maybe add Steph Curry, too, while we're at it? Maybe make Marion Cotillard the new sideline reporter, and let Orson Welles' ghost play the parts of both Chip and Joe?
Coming soon: A blockbuster. Maybe two.
- Thread starter rico43
- Start date
Maybe add Steph Curry, too, while we're at it? Maybe make Marion Cotillard the new sideline reporter, and let Orson Welles' ghost play the parts of both Chip and Joe?
OK bud, agree to disagree. I'm not getting sucked into another irrational debate with someone who thinks the Braves are in any position to acquire an asset as valuable as Sale. If you think Sale is even in the same realm of value as those guys were (not to mention the placement of those teams on the win curve), there isn't any point in further discussion.
Here's a thought. How about add Julio as a headliner in an ace trade and add a few peices to that. We get a true ace and keep most of our young talent. I really hate to trade high ceiling pitchers before we know what we have. You might be trading your future controllable ace away and make the wrong call. Julio is great, but he has peaked. We know what he is (a solid #2). Some of these other guys we would have to make a quick guess on a small body of work with most of them. I WILL say with the exception of Newcomb. If he doesn't click his value might go down. May be a good summer to add he or Sims in a trade. None of the really young guys though or even Fried.
rico43
<B>Director of Minor League Reports</B>
The key to each of the guys I mentioned is that their current teams are getting nowhere with them. Adding multiple prospects, a la Teixeira, can be a springboard to a title.
Don't underestimate the Braves' ability to get any of these guys for less than it would seem.
Don't underestimate the Braves' ability to get any of these guys for less than it would seem.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
guys like Whalen, Gant, Jenkins, and Blair might net you a relief pitcher or some lower level good lottery ticket. they will never be a head liner for a true impact MLB player, if those names are even in a trade for an impact player, it would be PTBNL not a significant piece.
I agree that trades will likely be made this off season. I just don't see the mega trade happening. I think Coppi will slow play this build piece when he can get them and letting more talent develop at a lower level as well. One of our OFers will be traded.. that has to be 90% certain.. but then I thought JT/Viz/JJ would be gone by now too.
I agree that trades will likely be made this off season. I just don't see the mega trade happening. I think Coppi will slow play this build piece when he can get them and letting more talent develop at a lower level as well. One of our OFers will be traded.. that has to be 90% certain.. but then I thought JT/Viz/JJ would be gone by now too.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I think you have to look at Clubs that will be trying to contend next year and/or are trying to shed payroll. I think Colorado is clearly setting up for a run next year or else they would have moved Cargo and some others.
I would try to go:
Markakis, Jenkins and Whelan to the Yanks for Sabathia, McCann and Frazier. Sure that's a lot of money but you get McCann and Sabathia for the dog and pony show and Frazier for the long term (Georgia boy angle, RF, power RH bat).
Then go Teheran, Folty, Inciarte, Jace Peterson to Colorado for Dahl, Rodgers and Dom Nunez.
Then I would sign a FA pitcher or two to hold the fort until some of the young arms are ready to compete (maybe Dickey and De La Rosa, or equivalent).
Rodgers is either 3B or 2B of the future. Frazier RF. Dahl CF. Nunez at C.
Opening Day 2017: 2B Albies, SS Swanson, CF Dahl, 1B Freeman, RF Kemp, C McCann/Flowers, 3B Garcia/Ruiz, LF Smith
Rotation: Sabathia, Wisler, Dickey, De La Rosa, (tbd)
Pen: Viz, Cabrera, Johnson, Withrow, Krol, Ramirez
Opening Day 2018: After spending some money to bring in some FA help
2B Albies, SS Swanson, CF Dahl, 1B Freeman, LF JD Martinez, RF Frazier, C McCann/Flowers, 3B Rodgers/Ruiz
Rotation: Darvish, Wisler, Newcomb, Matt Moore, Charlie Morton
Pen: Jake McGee, Cabrera, Minter, Withrow, Krol, Ramirez
Then you still have your 2nd and 3rd pitching waves ready to hit plus the few bats that are out there like Peterson, Riley, etc.
I would try to go:
Markakis, Jenkins and Whelan to the Yanks for Sabathia, McCann and Frazier. Sure that's a lot of money but you get McCann and Sabathia for the dog and pony show and Frazier for the long term (Georgia boy angle, RF, power RH bat).
Then go Teheran, Folty, Inciarte, Jace Peterson to Colorado for Dahl, Rodgers and Dom Nunez.
Then I would sign a FA pitcher or two to hold the fort until some of the young arms are ready to compete (maybe Dickey and De La Rosa, or equivalent).
Rodgers is either 3B or 2B of the future. Frazier RF. Dahl CF. Nunez at C.
Opening Day 2017: 2B Albies, SS Swanson, CF Dahl, 1B Freeman, RF Kemp, C McCann/Flowers, 3B Garcia/Ruiz, LF Smith
Rotation: Sabathia, Wisler, Dickey, De La Rosa, (tbd)
Pen: Viz, Cabrera, Johnson, Withrow, Krol, Ramirez
Opening Day 2018: After spending some money to bring in some FA help
2B Albies, SS Swanson, CF Dahl, 1B Freeman, LF JD Martinez, RF Frazier, C McCann/Flowers, 3B Rodgers/Ruiz
Rotation: Darvish, Wisler, Newcomb, Matt Moore, Charlie Morton
Pen: Jake McGee, Cabrera, Minter, Withrow, Krol, Ramirez
Then you still have your 2nd and 3rd pitching waves ready to hit plus the few bats that are out there like Peterson, Riley, etc.
I doubt we trade for sale or archer, you have to remember other clubs like the Dodgers and Red Sox would make offers too, I think the cost would be too high. I could see a trade for Gray. Newcomb, mallex and Sanchez would be a good middle ground when you consider Gray's high value after last season to an era of over 5 this year. Newcomb plugs into their rotation sometime next year and they need a CF.
You're right. A 3b who's never had 1 season with a WAR over 6 is totally comparable to 3 guys who all have at least one 9 WAR season under their belts....
Well, no since I didn't say that. So....
The point is we have the pieces to get Sale, if we really want him. Or Archer, if we wanted to go that route.
blueagleace1
Playing the Waiting Game
No way Atlanta offers up that much talent for Gray until he proves this past season was a fluke, and even then it wouldn't cost that much.
The Braves will most likely look for an innings eater they can slot into the 3/4 slot in the rotation to go with Julio, Folty and Wisler. They will also acquire some scrap heap guys to battle with the young guys for the 5th slot, just like they do every single year.
Any rosterbating about high profile pitchers being acquired is just setting yourselves up for disappointment. The Braves aren't getting Archer or Sale, just like they weren't getting Lester or Price or Greinke all the other years folks were fantasizing about getting those guys.
Any rosterbating about high profile pitchers being acquired is just setting yourselves up for disappointment. The Braves aren't getting Archer or Sale, just like they weren't getting Lester or Price or Greinke all the other years folks were fantasizing about getting those guys.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
There is a big difference between signing Lester, Greinke or Price as a FA and trading talent away as part of an effort to trade for an ACE.
I was one of the ones calling loudly for the Braves to sign either Greinke or Price last year, because I looked ahead and expected the current young pitching to struggle, I expected that the new stadium would pressure management into trying to do something big, and I saw that there would be no FA help after 2016. However, I didn't expect that either would get quite so insane contracts that they got. I figured it would take 6-7 years at $30M per for the Braves to get Price with overpay for not competing right away (got 7 years $217M) and 5-6 at $30M per for the Braves to get Greinke with overpay (got 6 years $206.5M). With the kind of money they ultimately got, I don't know if the Braves could have overpaid enough to bring either in.
If the Braves had been able to sign either Price or Greinke last year, then trying to contend in 2017 would have made much more sense. In fact, it would have likely meant that the Braves would be on track for 75-80 wins right now which is a lot easier to rise from into contention than 55-60 wins. Signing one of those two would have made some sense if the Braves could have got them for no more than what they really got from their current teams.
Trading for Chris Sale who has the value of a Price or Greinke based on talent, but actually a much higher value because he is currently paid well below performance level, would cost a prohibitive amount of talent then would cost just as much or more in dollars as signing one of those others because you can't trade for him then lose him via FA.
This is likely what will happen... but that is hard to say to the casual fan. Gotta look like you are making an effort.
The Braves can't trade for OR sign an Ace. They have to develop one on their own.
The Braves will never sign a guy for $150M+ (Price and Greinke), and they will never trade for someone in the top 20 of MLB trade values (Sale). Quite simply, they don't have enough resources (money or talent) to tie up the required assets in acquiring a single player of that caliber. They can certainly develop one, but they will never be able to buy one.
Southcack77
Well-known member
Things might change a bit when the TV Contract runs out.
Yes, after 2027 things might change. During the decade between then and now, I'll stick to my assertion though.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Under normal circumstances, I would agree.
However, if there ever was a time where a team like the Braves with a ~$120M payroll could afford to tie up $30M in one player it was last year. Let's take Greinke as an example where the Braves get him on a contract for 6 years $192M. Less money than he actually got you say? Yes but let's say the Braves frontloaded the contract where he got a $30M bonus and $40M the first year and second year (2016/17) with no deferments which offsets the value difference. If you spread the bonus over 6 years = $5M per. So the first two years cost you $90M ($45/$45), when you are rebuilding anyway and are in the middle of a relative FA drought where you don't have much in the way of players to spend it on. So the last four years of the contract cost you $102M or $20.5M per year plus the $5M bonus which =$25.5M.
So, in 2018, you would have Greinke at $25.5M, Freeman at $21M, Teheran at $8M, Markakis at $11M, etc. Those guys alone would be about 60% of expected payroll.
The concern with signing an ace is always at the end of the contract. They always get more years than they should and teams always want to escalate the payments at the end because of time value of money and inflation. But a rebuilding team especially a team like the Braves which has a decent payroll and a willingness to spend it could use the payroll respite afforded by the rebuild to load the contract differently.