Coppy keeps saying we're getting 2-3 SP

NinersSBChamps said:
Your idea isn't a bad one.

Is this fan base ever going to get out of the "trade for prospects" mindset?
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I'm ok with it, as it gives us more prospects to trade for better players when that situation presents itself.

I'm of the buy and sell ilk. I don't think it has to be one or the other.
 
yeezus said:
I think the FO, and most fans, are out of the "trade your young core players for prospects" mindset. but that doesn't mean we should stop buying low and attempting to sell high, like chico suggested.
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not saying that time is now, but at some point you have to stop shopping at garage sales in hopes to find that gem. At some point you move to a nicer store and just go ahead and get the shiny new toy.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
not saying that time is now, but at some point you have to stop shopping at garage sales in hopes to find that gem. At some point you move to a nicer store and just go ahead and get the shiny new toy.
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oftentimes those shiny new toys end up being very expensive and overpriced. I'm not sure there's anyone this offseason that does anything for us, but maybe next year.
 
yeezus said:
oftentimes those shiny new toys end up being very expensive and overpriced. I'm not sure there's anyone this offseason that does anything for us, but maybe next year.
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right they can be.. but at some point we have to quit dumpster diving and put guys who will help us win on the field. I am not saying this year is that time or even next.. just saying, I hope this isn't a yearly thing.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
right they can be.. but at some point we have to quit dumpster diving and put guys who will help us win on the field. I am not saying this year is that time or even next.. just saying, I hope this isn't a yearly thing.
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I'm always fine with a little dumpster diving. It doesn't mean you can't also go after some more high-profile guys.
 
Hart said that it would not be a 5 year rebuild. GREAT, but it has to have elements of a 5 year rebuild. The reason rebuilds take a while is because when you trade a MLB starter (Heyward, Kimball, Simba, JUP, etc) for prospects, you may get the next super stars, but they are prospects. You have to wait for them to grow, learn, try and fail, and then eventually win.

I think Swanson got everyone a little "NOW" happy. Guys like Newcome, Weisel, Allard, Touki, Fried, Anderson could very well all become #1 pitchers. Imaging a rotation with 5 #1s. Well they dont become #1 guys in a year. It takes time. So you wait...and sometimes wait some more....and then wait some more. maybe even 3-5 years.

The trick will be can we bring in 2-3 SP that do not block the opportunities of Wisler, Newcome, Sims, Weisel, etc when they show they are ready. If the rotation is NEW GUY, Teheran, NEW GUY, Folty, Wisler, then what do you do when Newcome takes that huge leap and dominates AAA? What do you do when Whalen sticks his head up and dominates AAA? What do you do when 2-3 of them do? You want the innings out of the NEW GUY but if the NEW GUYS are Sale, Archer, Ordizzi, then you just have to tell your prospect to wait, but for how long? 3 years? That doesn't work.

This is the challenge Coppy has, make us great, but still able to wait for the prospects to make us even better.
 
You have to plan for injuries. There will be plenty of chances for the prospects after injuries and underperformance.
 
bravesguy said:
Hart said that it would not be a 5 year rebuild. GREAT, but it has to have elements of a 5 year rebuild. The reason rebuilds take a while is because when you trade a MLB starter (Heyward, Kimball, Simba, JUP, etc) for prospects, you may get the next super stars, but they are prospects. You have to wait for them to grow, learn, try and fail, and then eventually win.

I think Swanson got everyone a little "NOW" happy. Guys like Newcome, Weisel, Allard, Touki, Fried, Anderson could very well all become #1 pitchers. Imaging a rotation with 5 #1s. Well they dont become #1 guys in a year. It takes time. So you wait...and sometimes wait some more....and then wait some more. maybe even 3-5 years.

The trick will be can we bring in 2-3 SP that do not block the opportunities of Wisler, Newcome, Sims, Weisel, etc when they show they are ready. If the rotation is NEW GUY, Teheran, NEW GUY, Folty, Wisler, then what do you do when Newcome takes that huge leap and dominates AAA? What do you do when Whalen sticks his head up and dominates AAA? What do you do when 2-3 of them do? You want the innings out of the NEW GUY but if the NEW GUYS are Sale, Archer, Ordizzi, then you just have to tell your prospect to wait, but for how long? 3 years? That doesn't work.

This is the challenge Coppy has, make us great, but still able to wait for the prospects to make us even better.
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Thus is why I'd look at guys like Alex Cobb, Danny Duffy, Tyson Ross, and Edison Volquez. Take guys on one year deals and play the odds with the options. Trade, Extend, or offer a QO. Performance and injuries usually will make that decision for you.
 
yeezus said:
A team should really never stop trading for prospects.

And when you're in the position we still in, why not look to sign a SP for a year that we can hope to flip? It's not like all of our pitching prospects are knocking at the door.
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Yeah I get that, but the answer recently is to only acquire prospects. I have said it time and time again. The major league roster needs serious help.
 
Chico said:
Edison Volquez may be a name to consider. The Royals are planning on cutting him and eating $3M instead of picking up his $10M option. They're cash strapped, so maybe we can get a $3M prospect from them by taking Volquez off their hands. He had two good seasons in 2014- and 2015 and a decent first half, before crapping the bed in the 2nd half. All we'd need is one good half next season and could flip him if we have the youngsters telling us they're ready to take his spot.

It's a risk, but a situation where we could conceivably get a prospect for taking him on and a prospect for flipping him and it only costing us $5M for half a season to do so.
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For 3 years or less and less than 40 million total, I'd be all for it. But in this shallow FA class with no QO attached, he'll probably be one of the most sought after pitchers.
 
Carp said:
For 3 years or less and less than 40 million total, I'd be all for it. But in this shallow FA class with no QO attached, he'll probably be one of the most sought after pitchers.
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I think Chico was saying to trade a scrub for him and pick up the 10 million option, but also get a prospect because we would be saving the royals 3 million for the buyout.. So get Edison and a prospect for either cash or a mid prospect... like the Touki trade in essence..
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I think Chico was saying to trade a scrub for him and pick up the 10 million option, but also get a prospect because we would be saving the royals 3 million for the buyout.. So get Edison and a prospect for either cash or a mid prospect... like the Touki trade in essence..
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I see that now. Thanks.

I still stand by my point however, if he becomes a FA.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
Yeah I get that, but the answer recently is to only acquire prospects. I have said it time and time again. The major league roster needs serious help.
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Of course the major league roster needs serious help. That's actually why we're acquiring so many prospects. Those two things are absolutely related.

You seem to view the major league team and the farm system as two entirely different, unrelated entities.
 
smootness said:
Of course the major league roster needs serious help. That's actually why we're acquiring so many prospects. Those two things are absolutely related.

You seem to view the major league team and the farm system as two entirely different, unrelated entities.
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Patience is not Niners strong suit. :tchop:
 
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