Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
I hate to agree with Shanks but what he said about Fredi pulling Chacin too early is all true, IMO.
Could Wisler Make Baseball History?
- Thread starter 50PoundHead
- Start date
I hate to agree with Shanks but what he said about Fredi pulling Chacin too early is all true, IMO.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I think the deal is you can't have your relievers facing one and two batters as early as Fredi does too often. Right now, it looks like Cervenka and O'Flaherty are being used almost solely against LHH, which makes them both of limited use.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
True which is why Wisler was warming while grilli was still trying to get the save.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
TomahawkCult
Arizona Fall Leaguer
IMO, the weekend's starters going 4.1, 5.1, and 5.1 innings, respectively, scuppered any sense of sane bullpen management.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
True, but the starters could've and should've went longer in at least one of the games, esp. Chacin the way he'd dominated and given his pitch count. The starters didn't pull themselves, Fredi did. That is part of bullpen management too.
As others have mentioned, this isn't so much in defense of Fredi as it is a thought about what hasn't been mentioned.
If you're assuming that Vizcaino IS the only reliever potentially available in that situation and there's the very real chance that you may need to get more than one inning from whomever you run out there you have little choice other than using a SP. Given the fact that it WAS Wisler's throw day, he was going to be working in some form no matter what. Even if there wasn't an off day today, he'd have been the obvious choice IMO. You'd have had plenty of options in Gwinnett to call up to start if there had been a game today and skip Matt this time through - PARTICULARLY since Folty was scheduled today. Depending on how things went in a Folty start with the big club, you'd be able to juggle the rotation a little over the next few days to slot Wisler into Perez' slot next time through and move Williams to the pen.
I'm not saying that absolves Fredi of bad pen management earlier in the game, but with at FIVE guys available in Gwinnett (and capable of slotting in at some point in Folty, Gant, Jenkins, Blair, and Kelly - a luxury we haven't had in quite some time), using a starter like that really doesn't scream "fire him NOW" to me.
If you're assuming that Vizcaino IS the only reliever potentially available in that situation and there's the very real chance that you may need to get more than one inning from whomever you run out there you have little choice other than using a SP. Given the fact that it WAS Wisler's throw day, he was going to be working in some form no matter what. Even if there wasn't an off day today, he'd have been the obvious choice IMO. You'd have had plenty of options in Gwinnett to call up to start if there had been a game today and skip Matt this time through - PARTICULARLY since Folty was scheduled today. Depending on how things went in a Folty start with the big club, you'd be able to juggle the rotation a little over the next few days to slot Wisler into Perez' slot next time through and move Williams to the pen.
I'm not saying that absolves Fredi of bad pen management earlier in the game, but with at FIVE guys available in Gwinnett (and capable of slotting in at some point in Folty, Gant, Jenkins, Blair, and Kelly - a luxury we haven't had in quite some time), using a starter like that really doesn't scream "fire him NOW" to me.
Runnin
Well-known member
Actually this is what good managing looks like.
JohnAdcox
Brian Jordan's New BFF
True. There are much, much better reasons than that.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
Using Wisler at that point wasn't the terrible thing. NEEDING to use Wisler at that point was the terrible thing.
mossy
<B>Hysterical Girlfriend<BR>That Storms Out and</B
How many threads do we need on this? Some of you are so desperately blinded by your favorite assumptions about his decisions that you will bash anything he does just for the hell of it.
Ok, he pulled Chacin too soon. But where is the player accountability for poor performance?
The sooner we can trade Grilli the save blower the better. And the other guys aren't that impressive either.
Ok, he pulled Chacin too soon. But where is the player accountability for poor performance?
The sooner we can trade Grilli the save blower the better. And the other guys aren't that impressive either.
To be honest, there's really no reason NOT to use a SP like that if the same type of situation presents itself again. As Runnin mentioned, that's actually what "pretty good managing" looks like to me too. He has enough legitimate options available in Gwinnett to do that again at any point in time this year. We all realize he's managing for his life this season, and being able to think outside the 25-Man Roster is a big part of that. Yesterday was actually a plus if you really think about it in those terms. He was utilizing the 40-Man Roster instead of the regular roster in an effort to win a game.
I'm not saying that that means he should be kept, just pointing out the fact that it's pretty tough to criticize him for that move. If you've been watching REALLY closely, that's actually the kind of things Maddon has done in the past.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Fredi's earned as much.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
This arrives at the real nut-meat of the matter.
Millwood1Hitter
Anytime Now Frankie...
Kinda backwards, but in the postseason in the ALDS against the Astros....my main man Kevin Millwood pitched a win hit win in Game 2 and saved Game 3 on the road. Of course after that, he was never the same until 2002, that in combination with the increased workload in 99 he struggled in the NLCS against the Mets and was rocked by the Yankees in the World Series and struggled with shoulder and consistency issues in 2000 and 2001.