Dansby Swanson Already Proving He Belongs

yeezus said:
Yeah, sure, but is he ready?
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It was a fair question at the time of his call-up, notwithstanding his bright start in the top level.

I still think, given the available information, various roster constraints (Rule V protections, for one), and the ever-present loom of the FA-clock, holding off on promoting him made the most sense. But I likewise said that, since the Braves judged differently, I hoped he'd justify their decision with a productive end to 2016—and I'm quite happy that he's heretofore done so.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
God, I hate to be seen on the same side as Millwood. For the record, I don't think it's anywhere near that bad. It's just an unnecessary gamble that even if works out doesn't accomplish a thing outside of short term gratification for the few fans (us) who are still paying attention to a horrid season.
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The discussion of Knucksie's gratification and Shanks' book is in a different thread.
 
jpx7 said:
It was a fair question at the time of his call-up, notwithstanding his bright start in the top level.

I still think, given the available information, various roster constraints (Rule V protections, for one), and the ever-present loom of the FA-clock, holding off on promoting him made the most sense. But I likewise said that, since the Braves judged differently, I hoped he'd justify their decision with a productive end to 2016—and I'm quite happy that he's heretofore done so.
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I can easily see the argument to call him up, and staggering your call-ups was probably a factor here, too. I think they want him to be a legit contributor next year, so letting him get a taste right now helps with that.
 
yeezus said:
I can easily see the argument to call him up, and staggering your call-ups was probably a factor here, too. I think they want him to be a legit contributor next year, so letting him get a taste right now helps with that.
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I can see both sides of the argument. I was initially against it because of the 40-man roster implications, but Swanson looks to be ready to make the step and it's not like the winter roster situation is untenable. I will say this, when I saw the team live up here in Minnesota, the team was relatively listless. Aybar was goofing around in the field and there wasn't a ton of focus. The team has appeared to be more dialed-in since Swanson's call-up and the Kemp trade and I think the brass was tired of watching a team go through the motions. That may make the Swanson move look more emotional than strategic and that's always a slippery slope, but we'll just have to worry about the peripheral issues down the road.
 
50PoundHead said:
I can see both sides of the argument. I was initially against it because of the 40-man roster implications, but Swanson looks to be ready to make the step and it's not like the winter roster situation is untenable. I will say this, when I saw the team live up here in Minnesota, the team was relatively listless. Aybar was goofing around in the field and there wasn't a ton of focus. The team has appeared to be more dialed-in since Swanson's call-up and the Kemp trade and I think the brass was tired of watching a team go through the motions. That may make the Swanson move look more emotional than strategic and that's always a slippery slope, but we'll just have to worry about the peripheral issues down the road.
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These things matter.
 
I think that concern about his development is the least compelling argument against calling him up. I think that questioning his readiness is different thing entirely--even John Hart suggested that he may not have been "ready." They clearly think that he is equipped to deal with success or failure in 100 ABs, and everything we know about Dansby seems to support that idea.

Concern about roster issues and service time is a different, and IMO valid, condideration.
 
yeezus said:
These things matter.
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Not if you've already committed yourself to keeping him as a cornerstone piece. Whether the brass has admitted it publicly, that's pretty obviously the case. They've said all along (like it or not) that he alone would dictate his own timeline - and he has. Hart and others saying he wasn't quite ready, but was close enough is simply CYA-speak in the event he struggled out of the gate. They don't want him to have that added pressure of feeling like "the savior" - even though they know lots of fans will look at him that way. Obviously they thought he was ready internally or they wouldn't have given him his "cup of coffee" prior to September.

The financial implications are going to be small enough and inconsequential enough that this is all truly just message board fodder. Surely the select few of us here that have agreed with his promotion from the get-go can't be the only ones who see this. No one - and I mean NO ONE - else in baseball circles have disagreed with calling him up at all. He was advanced enough mentally to handle the jump, and that's by far the most important part of all this. They wanted to give him the chance to prove that now rather than go to camp next February still wondering about that answer. If he struggled, no harm - no foul. They could still start him in Gwinnett next season to manipulate his service-time if they needed to WITHOUT causing any waves by just saying "you showed you weren't quite ready for prime time when you struggled so mightily the last two months, so we want you to get a little more seasoning".

In the highly-unlikely event they haven't bought out all of his arbitration years at a reduced rate before he gets to them, it's worth the extra few million bucks it might cost them to KNOW they needn't bother with signing another stopgap to keep the position warm for him - they'd have spent that money to sign a veteran for one year anyway.

As for roster implications, adding him now simply drove the last nail in the coffin for someone like Cunniff/Weber/etc.. I have absolutely no problem with that since some of those names were already on the verge of getting DFAd. Several of those guys at the bottom of the list aren't likely going to get picked up and could be re-signed to minor league deals anyway.
 
clvclv said:
Not if you've already committed yourself to keeping him as a cornerstone piece. Whether the brass has admitted it publicly, that's pretty obviously the case. They've said all along (like it or not) that he alone would dictate his own timeline - and he has. Hart and others saying he wasn't quite ready, but was close enough is simply CYA-speak in the event he struggled out of the gate. They don't want him to have that added pressure of feeling like "the savior" - even though they know lots of fans will look at him that way. Obviously they thought he was ready internally or they wouldn't have given him his "cup of coffee" prior to September.

The financial implications are going to be small enough and inconsequential enough that this is all truly just message board fodder. Surely the select few of us here that have agreed with his promotion from the get-go can't be the only ones who see this. No one - and I mean NO ONE - else in baseball circles have disagreed with calling him up at all. He was advanced enough mentally to handle the jump, and that's by far the most important part of all this. They wanted to give him the chance to prove that now rather than go to camp next February still wondering about that answer. If he struggled, no harm - no foul. They could still start him in Gwinnett next season to manipulate his service-time if they needed to WITHOUT causing any waves by just saying "you showed you weren't quite ready for prime time when you struggled so mightily the last two months, so we want you to get a little more seasoning".

In the highly-unlikely event they haven't bought out all of his arbitration years at a reduced rate before he gets to them, it's worth the extra few million bucks it might cost them to KNOW they needn't bother with signing another stopgap to keep the position warm for him - they'd have spent that money to sign a veteran for one year anyway.

As for roster implications, adding him now simply drove the last nail in the coffin for someone like Cunniff/Weber/etc.. I have absolutely no problem with that since some of those names were already on the verge of getting DFAd. Several of those guys at the bottom of the list aren't likely going to get picked up and could be re-signed to minor league deals anyway.
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I was just saying the non-stat sides of things matter.
 
Knucksie said:
A #1 overall pick has more ambitious projections, and, yes, Walt Weiss was a pretty good player.
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Yea....I'm still not sold he's a build around guy. Defense has not been what I hoped and we would need to see a lot more power and better BB/K. I think hitting low in the lineup is falsely elevating his BB numbers.

He's going to be a useful player, but we will see if he's an impact guy.
 
yeezus said:
I can easily see the argument to call him up, and staggering your call-ups was probably a factor here, too. I think they want him to be a legit contributor next year, so letting him get a taste right now helps with that.
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We know you "can easily see the argument to call him up" because you've been riding that horse to death. The point is, as 50 said, there is another side to the argument, and it invokes a fair and good-faith questioning of the merits of bringing Swanson up in 2016.

As I noted, I disagreed with the decision, but it's been made and I hope he continues to shine, and likewise hope the roster and contract considerations sort themselves out amenably. It's probably in vain, if not greedy, to hope moreover that we will soon see an end to the snide, needlessly self-congratulatory, and overall pretty pointless "oh dam fam I guess he teh not ready!" posts, which either misconstrue or entirely miss the point of the other side of the discussion.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Yea....I'm still not sold he's a build around guy. Defense has not been what I hoped and we would need to see a lot more power and better BB/K. I think hitting low in the lineup is falsely elevating his BB numbers.

He's going to be a useful player, but we will see if he's an impact guy.
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After a month? Seriously?

Everybody has to adjust - and a huge majority of hitters see their strikeout rate rise when they make the jump to the majors. Carlos Correa has struck out 125 times against 70 BBs so far this year (and struck out 78 times with 40 BBs last season). Lindor? 81 Ks against 43 BBs this year (69 Ks/27 BBs in 2015). *ell, even Corey Seager has struck out 116 times while only walking 49.

This is why Hart TRIED to quell expectations - how many 22 year olds make the jump from the minors into the All-Star Game the following year???
 
clvclv said:
After a month? Seriously?

Everybody has to adjust - and a huge majority of hitters see their strikeout rate rise when they make the jump to the majors. Carlos Correa has struck out 125 times against 70 BBs so far this year (and struck out 78 times with 40 BBs last season). Lindor? 81 Ks against 43 BBs this year (69 Ks/27 BBs in 2015). *ell, even Corey Seager has struck out 116 times while only walking 49.

This is why Hart TRIED to quell expectations - how many 22 year olds make the jump from the minors into the All-Star Game the following year???
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ain't no bregman
 
Knucksie said:
The comparison came from The Eternal Optimistic. On second thought, we really don't want it to be used as an invitation to unrelated rant about Albie Lopez. So, enough said.
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The comparison came from a former major leaguer Dan Plesac and was backed up by another former MLB player in Harold Reynolds, and scouts have made the comparison as well. And you guys are fools gold if you think you're gonna be happy with Swanson if that is indeed what he becomes, because let me tell you something, Walt Weiss was a nice MLB player that had a long career, but wasn't a player a team and especially a contending team could build around. Weiss wasn't responsible for the success that the A's had in the early 90's, that can be attributed to the bash brothers, Ricky Henderson, Dennis Eckersley, etc. And let's face it, in his early years Weiss was barely a 600 OPS player....this is what yall would be happy with as a top prospect? No, those guys are dime a dozen. He better be more like Derek Jeter than Walt Weiss.
 
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