Decline of Detroit's neighborhoods seen through Google Street a View

Wow, I've seen 3rd world squatter camps look better. Similar to Jaurez, Mexico.

Depressing.
 
If only we could bailout detroit even more. Shame that all that money sunk into GM didn't you know, do anything beneficial to the tax payer.
 
Unless Erlich Bachman was the mayor of Detroit I'm pretty sure it would have still fallen to **** no matter what party was voted for
 
Actually the proper blame from the Rs is on the unions. Ignoring that it was the company who agreed to handle the union workers the way they did. And it was non-union management who didn't pay attention to the growing trend in small cars with high gas mileage.
 
zitothebrave said:
Actually the proper blame from the Rs is on the unions. Ignoring that it was the company who agreed to handle the union workers the way they did. And it was non-union management who didn't pay attention to the growing trend in small cars with high gas mileage.
Click to expand...

Sorta right, but unions are what destroying jobs. We had a union here at my work and we got rid of it because the union bosses did not do what they suppose to do by allowing firing workers who are not up to task and drawing out suspensions and what not. When you have surprise inspections from the government in the middle of the night and you have union workers sleeping or high on drugs or drunk and you can't fire them and it cost the company contracts, what is our owner suppose to do when his hands are tied all the time trying to get rid of them? The managers tell me before I got here that dealing with union workers were a nightmare. My owner works everyday and I talk to him everyday, I know our finances and how much we make, the amount of employees and he had to fire all of them, but gave most of them a chance to come back to work provided they gave up the union. Almost all of them came back and they got a surprise, a two dollar hike in pay, same benefits. He explain to me that it cost more money fighting the union than paying these guys extra who wanted to come back. Now granted, all of them were not asked back, the ones who they want to get rid of weren't allow back. The union tried to picket the place, but since we are on five year contracts with state and most business, not much they can do and gave up after some were arrested for jaywalking, trespassing and disruption of traffic.

Unions were needed when OSHA wasn't around and regulations were nonexistent, today the businesses back then couldn't do that today with the regulations. Most of our manufacturing jobs were in unions and since they all are being sent overseas or outsource, the union is losing a lot of money in dues. They should have thought about that before their demands got way out of hand. GED peeps were making more than 8 year grads in some cases.

The carpenters/plumbers/electricians now are getting out of unions, like my neighbor, because companies see what a union base contractor is charging versus an individual non-union and they go with non-union. He said that unions are always there at the site with signs protesting him and his other buddies. He said being in the union, jobs are harder to come by and then there is tenure and other things that makes it an iffy situation. As an independent he can pick and choose what he wants to do and makes a lot of money doing it that way without having to pay dues/fees and other crap he said.

When I got my addition put on my house, I went to recommended union back company and they wanted to charge me $121k, and others varied between $100k and $130k. I then asked my neighbors and they say go to these independent companies non union, $55k. I asked them why union backed are so much higher. He explained to me that you pay for all their crew, it could be 15 to 20 people, while you will be dealing with 5 people with my crew. I get it when he explained to me and that is how unions operated, more people get paid, more dues come in so they spread it out. The job will be done but at a higher price.

Unions can be great when needed, but they are too greedy and do not know how to get rid of lazy people.
 
Unions aren't what's destroying jobs. It's the rich.

Don't get me wrong, some unions suck. But overall unions are good.

One could argue correlation and causation I'm not but this graph is out there

original.jpg
 
AerchAngel said:
Sorta right, but unions are what destroying jobs. We had a union here at my work and we got rid of it because the union bosses did not do what they suppose to do by allowing firing workers who are not up to task and drawing out suspensions and what not. When you have surprise inspections from the government in the middle of the night and you have union workers sleeping or high on drugs or drunk and you can't fire them and it cost the company contracts, what is our owner suppose to do when his hands are tied all the time trying to get rid of them? The managers tell me before I got here that dealing with union workers were a nightmare. My owner works everyday and I talk to him everyday, I know our finances and how much we make, the amount of employees and he had to fire all of them, but gave most of them a chance to come back to work provided they gave up the union. Almost all of them came back and they got a surprise, a two dollar hike in pay, same benefits. He explain to me that it cost more money fighting the union than paying these guys extra who wanted to come back. Now granted, all of them were not asked back, the ones who they want to get rid of weren't allow back. The union tried to picket the place, but since we are on five year contracts with state and most business, not much they can do and gave up after some were arrested for jaywalking, trespassing and disruption of traffic.

Unions were needed when OSHA wasn't around and regulations were nonexistent, today the businesses back then couldn't do that today with the regulations. Most of our manufacturing jobs were in unions and since they all are being sent overseas or outsource, the union is losing a lot of money in dues. They should have thought about that before their demands got way out of hand. GED peeps were making more than 8 year grads in some cases.

The carpenters/plumbers/electricians now are getting out of unions, like my neighbor, because companies see what a union base contractor is charging versus an individual non-union and they go with non-union. He said that unions are always there at the site with signs protesting him and his other buddies. He said being in the union, jobs are harder to come by and then there is tenure and other things that makes it an iffy situation. As an independent he can pick and choose what he wants to do and makes a lot of money doing it that way without having to pay dues/fees and other crap he said.

When I got my addition put on my house, I went to recommended union back company and they wanted to charge me $121k, and others varied between $100k and $130k. I then asked my neighbors and they say go to these independent companies non union, $55k. I asked them why union backed are so much higher. He explained to me that you pay for all their crew, it could be 15 to 20 people, while you will be dealing with 5 people with my crew. I get it when he explained to me and that is how unions operated, more people get paid, more dues come in so they spread it out. The job will be done but at a higher price.

Unions can be great when needed, but they are too greedy and do not know how to get rid of lazy people.
Click to expand...

You have explained why baby boomers have become successful in destroying everything that was great about our country that worked and was not related to government.
 
KeithLockhart said:
You have explained why baby boomers have become successful in destroying everything that was great about our country that worked and was not related to government.
Click to expand...

What is the goal of the union? No, it is not to keep you safe, OSHA regulations do that, it is to make the most money for you, like Boras. When you price yourself out of the market like Stephen Drew, that company is going to go elsewhere and not have to deal with the political BS that goes along with it. Dealing with unions is like getting your teeth pulled with rusted pliers, it is not worth it.

We got greedy (oligarchies, wall street, hedge fund managers), pay income has stagnated because there is always someone overseas that will do it cheaper and without the regulations. Unions could have left it alone and stuck to their core benefit in workplace, safety, and not try to dick over the company, those jobs would have stayed in the states. Clinton and then Bush did not stop the outsourcing and now since that dyke has broke, there is no turning back. In the next twenty years unless the conservatives/liberals get off their ass and stop this hemorrhaging of allowing this we are going to be a feudal system of rich and poor.

And the GM fiasco, Zeets was right, they bought their sh!tty parts from China and put it on an American vehicle. When we manufacturing our own parts, American cars were better. Trying to make that extra buck bit them in the ass at the end. But they were union backed and wanted more money.

It comes in full circle SAV, each side was greedy, but one side can eliminate the other and this is what you got in the end.....Detroit.
 
zitothebrave said:
Unions aren't what's destroying jobs. It's the rich.

Don't get me wrong, some unions suck. But overall unions are good.

One could argue correlation and causation I'm not but this graph is out there

original.jpg
Click to expand...

The graph is dead on. All those middle class jobs got outsourced.........combination of union/greed and government unwillingness to stop outsourcing. I know Sturg will say something about globalism is needed for our products. But what has globalism done to America workers......squashed them.
 
AerchAngel said:
Unions could have left it alone and stuck to their core benefit in workplace, safety, and not try to dick over the company, those jobs would have stayed in the states..
Click to expand...

Come on, you know that's not right. That's just the same old excuse the right has been using for years. What makes your company more money...zero regulations and people making 10 cents an hour? Or a non union worker in the States doing the same job for $12/hr?

The unions didn't drive the jobs away. Greed did.
 
ESP47 said:
Come on, you know that's not right. That's just the same old excuse the right has been using for years. What makes your company more money...zero regulations and people making 10 cents an hour? Or a non union worker in the States doing the same job for $12/hr?

The unions didn't drive the jobs away. Greed did.
Click to expand...

How is that possible? My company abide by the OSHA regulations, no need for union. Union hurt our business by not firing people who get paid a lot of money to do nothing. Paid for workers who come to work drunk, high or falling asleep on the job, not caring if the government do a surprise inspection and you fail. Then when you try to fire said worker, after spending money on lawyers and what not to eventually firing him after union stonewalling, it is not worth hassle. This goes on in a lot of places. No wonder our schools suck, teachers know they are safe and can't be fired unless under extreme conditions like rape. Do you think my boss/owner wanted to make more money by firing the union. He instead gave the workers who did a great job a pay increase and did not allow the workers that caused us to lose contracts to get their job back.

Unions are greedy, business owners are greedy, CEO's are greedy. To say unions are not greedy is laughable. They need their dues too to fatten their pockets.

And explain why does it cost me double for the same contract comparing a union owned company versus and independent, sounds like greed to me?

Lastly, Clinton/Bush/Obama still allowing outsourcing, they could make it harder and bring income in if they like tax the hell out of products produce overseas and then returned to America. Maybe that will force them to reconsider outsourcing. Now if they want to produce stuff that is going to stay overseas, I am fine with that in regards to global capitalism.
 
AerchAngel said:
The graph is dead on. All those middle class jobs got outsourced.........combination of union/greed and government unwillingness to stop outsourcing. I know Sturg will say something about globalism is needed for our products. But what has globalism done to America workers......squashed them.
Click to expand...

Union greed had nothing to do with it and you should know that. A union for sure comes at a premium if you use your contracting example. Because they have a reputation as a skilled worker. I'll use this as an example, it's like taking your car to a highly reputable place or going someplace that's an upstart. I'm sure the guys did a fine job on your house. But the idea behind a union is simple. A colleciton of skilled workers. If you don't value the cost premium of that skill, then you don't. That's why jobs went overseas not because union workers were making too much. It's because we can't mobilize a workforce like the Chinese, Indonesians, etc. and certainly can't do it for as cheap.

That said I totally agree with the government part. Government should absolutely not even remotely consider giving any tax breaks to any company who ships jobs overseas or hides money offshore. Apple, Google, you name them, they don't deserve it.

Also dissolve the federal reserve and bring back a real federal bank. No bailouts to banks and stock market cretins.
 
AerchAngel said:
How is that possible? My company abide by the OSHA regulations, no need for union. Union hurt our business by not firing people who get paid a lot of money to do nothing. Paid for workers who come to work drunk, high or falling asleep on the job, not caring if the government do a surprise inspection and you fail. Then when you try to fire said worker, after spending money on lawyers and what not to eventually firing him after union stonewalling, it is not worth hassle. This goes on in a lot of places. No wonder our schools suck, teachers know they are safe and can't be fired unless under extreme conditions like rape. Do you think my boss/owner wanted to make more money by firing the union. He instead gave the workers who did a great job a pay increase and did not allow the workers that caused us to lose contracts to get their job back.

Unions are greedy, business owners are greedy, CEO's are greedy. To say unions are not greedy is laughable. They need their dues too to fatten their pockets.

And explain why does it cost me double for the same contract comparing a union owned company versus and independent, sounds like greed to me?

Lastly, Clinton/Bush/Obama still allowing outsourcing, they could make it harder and bring income in if they like tax the hell out of products produce overseas and then returned to America. Maybe that will force them to reconsider outsourcing. Now if they want to produce stuff that is going to stay overseas, I am fine with that in regards to global capitalism.
Click to expand...

Unions are greedy, but at least them being greedy is a positive for more people than a corporation being greedy.

Union work isn't necessary for every job and every person, but I can see it as a huge benefit plenty of times. That said I think there needs to be reform within some uninos but there's a lot more for that.
 
zitothebrave said:
Union greed had nothing to do with it and you should know that. A union for sure comes at a premium if you use your contracting example. Because they have a reputation as a skilled worker. I'll use this as an example, it's like taking your car to a highly reputable place or going someplace that's an upstart. I'm sure the guys did a fine job on your house. But the idea behind a union is simple. A colleciton of skilled workers. If you don't value the cost premium of that skill, then you don't. That's why jobs went overseas not because union workers were making too much. It's because we can't mobilize a workforce like the Chinese, Indonesians, etc. and certainly can't do it for as cheap.

That said I totally agree with the government part. Government should absolutely not even remotely consider giving any tax breaks to any company who ships jobs overseas or hides money offshore. Apple, Google, you name them, they don't deserve it.

Also dissolve the federal reserve and bring back a real federal bank. No bailouts to banks and stock market cretins.
Click to expand...

unions do not provide a premium job, they do it at the lowest specs they can. THEY ARE UNION for a reason. You can't fire them for a lackadaisical job. They cut corners at every opportune time. I know, my neighbor was in the IBEW or something like that union and got out and the stories he told me would make your skin crawl. He said they do the BARE minimum. Secure contract and they could do whatever they want just enough to pass city/county and state tests usually structural integrity/electrical and plumbing. Independents can't do that, they have to go above and beyond the call or they won't get renewed business. When you have so many workers shifting in and out, it's dangerous.
 
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