Dissension in the front office?

Southcack77 said:
I don't know what to tell you. I never expected them to contend in 2017 and never saw their window as being especially likely to open until the end of the decade.

If you are claiming now that you did see that in 2017, I think you were unrealistic.

I don't actually believe that you think they especially tried. I'm confident I could find numerous posts by you making fun of the pozzi-Braves for thinking that front office was trying to win rather than just throw some recognizable players out there to sell tickets. Does that sound a little familiar to you?

......

As far as the Braves finances, I have no idea. I don't have near the information necessary to make that sort of conclusion. Maybe Liberty's next quarterly's or year end statements will shed some light on it, I don't know.

I think your conclusion that the Sean Rodriguez trade proves that the Braves are in a financial disaster is suspect.

Here is what I think about Sean Rodriguez. he was acquired to potentially split starts between 2B and 3B and come off the bench. the Braves somewhat surprisingly agreed to give him 5.75 million in 2017 and 2018 to man that roll. That's a pretty bad deal for a bench bat, but it isn't such a bad deal for someone that might start.

Something funny happened on his way to the ballpark. He was seriously injured and missed more than half the season. The Braves watched his rehab as he floundered in AAA and then in the majors and then gave him and his obligation away for nothing.

Now you can assume that was because they couldn't meet payroll, just like you can assume they sold a 31 year old throwing 86 in AAA for cash because they couldn't meet payroll, if you want.

But maybe, just maybe, it had more to do with the fact that they acquired Brandon Phillips and Matt Adams, that they found a defensive utility guy in Camargo, were shortly to promote Albies, and didn't see SRod as a starting 3B for them, and didn't want to pay SROD 5.75 million to come off the bench next season as their #2 bench bat behind Matt Adams (granted he might be traded as well).

I mean maybe a 25% increase in attendance really did turn out to be a terrible blow against the team's finances or maybe trading a soon to be 33 year old career reserve hitting under .200 in nearly 100 ABs was a baseball move?

I don't know. You may have had another Mozart moment. I'm sure we will find out more soon.

I look forward to it.
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LOL you're as desperate to defend the FO as they are desperate to increase attendance.

Their job depends on it, so their desperation is understandable.

What's your excuse?
 
Enscheff said:
Why is the Pozzy Chief acting like this isn't a number we can easily look up?

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/atlanta-braves/payroll/

The very bottom-right figure is the Braves total 2017 payroll: $113.9M.

That value includes adjustments like Kemp only being paid $9.5M, and all the signing bonuses for the 2017 draft class.

So yeah...where's this big jump? How are we supposed to believe they will be $165M and in the Top 10 any time soon with a terrible TV contract and attendance in the 2.4M range?

Do we really need any more clarification as to why the FO is in trouble?
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Yes, we do need more clarification than that.
 
Enscheff said:
LOL you're as desperate to defend the FO as they are desperate to increase attendance.

Their job depends on it, so their desperation is understandable.

What's your excuse?
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I'm long past the point in life where I have crushes on management or players. I have no bad wishes on the front offices, but it won't matter to me much if they all get fired tomorrow.

I can only judge the rebuild on the timeframe that it seemed reasonable to me to judge it on.
 
Southcack77 said:
I'm long past the point in life where I have crushes on management or players. I have no bad wishes on the front offices, but it won't matter to me much if they all get fired tomorrow.

I can only judge the rebuild on the timeframe that it seemed reasonable to me to judge it on.
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Oh come on, spare me. Wake up and smell the losing, wasted resources, disappointing attendance, reported internal friction, and management restructuring. Seriously.

Or keep your head in the sand and continue arguing with me. Your call.
 
Enscheff said:
Wake up and smell the losing, wasted resources, disappointing attendance and management restructuring.

Or keep your head in the sand and continue arguing with me. Your call.
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I think I'll continue to post when it suits me and you can do the same. I'll try to continue to be respectful. It's difficult at times and we all fail sometimes. Maybe we can have a more productive conversation in the future. This one doesn't seem to be going places.
 
We are past the point of moving on from Bobby and JS. That time is over and the only way to move on is for them to ride off into the sunset and hopefully soon. We need new fresh blood that goes against the grain some. I like most of the pitching prospects we have but I wish we would have built around more bats than we did. Most of us knew that 2017 was a pipedream and i'm sure the FO knew too but of course they would never admit up to it, now they are trying to do things so it looks like they are trying to right the ship. I expect we'll see more moves soon.
 
Southcack77 said:
I'll make it even easier for you. Here is the article: http://www.ajc.com/sports/baseball/...ranks-mlb-this-season/obJzSuqkMHPzU15Yp41qvI/
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I'm not coming at you, because I haven't taken the time to parse the genesis of all the numbers, but I've seen three different sources with three different numbers, ranging from $112M to $126. My point was that Coach McGuirk said he expected a top-10 payroll.

I realize that will have to wait and see if it comes to fruition, but it just sounds like horse**** to me.
 
Easy answer. They have went in more than one direction because they have more than one person calling the shots, and many moves are made OR vetoed from above. I bet you have Coppy, the John's, heck even Bobby giving their two cents. Where they probably have left people alone to do their job (outside of the obvious rush to promote guys)...is the farm. It just happens to be the bright spot. I bet it's a cluster bomb to get a move through all of the elder group.
 
Julio3000 said:
I'm not coming at you, because I haven't taken the time to parse the genesis of all the numbers, but I've seen three different sources with three different numbers, ranging from $112M to $126. My point was that Coach McGuirk said he expected a top-10 payroll.

I realize that will have to wait and see if it comes to fruition, but it just sounds like horse**** to me.
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I was just providing the ajc article to the person who seemed to be suggesting I made it up.

I don't vouch for it necessarily. It's what came up when I googled braves 2017 payroll.
 
Ok, so there was a shuffle of roles and titles. In larger corporations titles carry an expected payroll so sometimes a title change is just a raise. If there was a battle in the FO I’d say the Hart/Coppy combo would be winning. Dave Trembley was the odd man out and he was hired before Hart/Coppy took over. Coppy got a new assistant to GM in Billy Ryan who is an analytics guy who created their system “Tomahawk”. Roy Clark got a much needed raise. I don't think this is the conspiracy theory some are making it out to be.
 
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GeorgiaGirl said:
Sounds like we might be seeing a Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz moving on ceremony sometime this fall...
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I believe it is time. I think Coppy and Hart can do ok. It seems like Coppy wants more control and from the moves made he seems to be getting it.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
if clearing out the entire FO means getting rid of Cox and JS.. then sign me up to the negi brave's roster..
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McGuirk needs to go as well. In fact, he needs to be the first one out the door.

I don't trust him to hire beer vendors, much less the next GM/President/random old guy drawing a check because "Braves Way!"
 
1. A rebuild like this takes 4-5 years (they should know this), and our real talent is just beginning to come up. We suck in 2019...everyone should be gone. We "should" be a playoff team by then.

2. This really lines up with us making another "win now" #stupid move in the offseason, to try and make things look better at the cost of some of our prospects that seem to be turning the corner. Ugh...shoot me!!
 
[TW]https://twitter.com/keithlaw/status/902698537321947137[/TW]

[TW]https://twitter.com/keithlaw/status/902707089214201856[/TW]

Intersting to see Law to go so strongly against this. He's generally been better connected to the Braves than Ken.

Edit: I can't make the tweets show up, isn't it just [TW] at the beggining and end of link?
 
Oklahomabrave said:
[TW]https://twitter.com/keithlaw/status/902698537321947137[/TW]

[TW]https://twitter.com/keithlaw/status/902707089214201856[/TW]

Intersting to see Law to go so strongly against this. He's generally been better connected to the Braves than Ken.

Edit: I can't make the tweets show up, isn't it just [TW] at the beggining and end of link?
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Law and Ken have pretty consistently been on opposite sides of the Braves rebuild opinions.

Ken seems to be close with Wren has written a number of articles taking his back against the Braves pointing at him as a scapegoat. He's written that Wren was not permitted an off year or a rebuild or a retool. And he's questioned the Braves for tearing down a solid team for the easier task of selling assets for prospects.

Law seems to like what Atlanta has done.

They could both be right.
 
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