DOB: Braves offseason about to get a lot busier. - Gamel released.

[Gary82]

We are handcuffed for the next several years by BJ's contract. Unless he has a miracle resurgence we're screwed.

I don't know what it is about free agents and FW but he has terrible luck.

Luck? Maybe.

hindsight is 20/20 but people were concerned about the Lowe signing and Uggla extension. Unfortunately, those fears came to a realization. Then there's Kawakami. The poor bastard was put into that time warp hole that Ozzie Smith fell into in that one Simpsons episode.

 

[salmagundy]

"Luck? Maybe."

I prefer to call it EGO!!!!

EGO kept JJ and Hanson in Atl a year or so to long also.

I was under the impression that you were supposed to sell high and buy low. That went by the wayside with Wren and his actions -- Lowe, KK, Uggly, BJ, Hanson, JJ, not to mention lesser failings of McLouth, Glaus and others.

 

[Gary82]

"Luck? Maybe."

I prefer to call it EGO!!!!

EGO kept JJ and Hanson in Atl a year or so to long also.

I was under the impression that you were supposed to sell high and buy low. That went by the wayside with Wren and his actions -- Lowe, KK, Uggly, BJ, Hanson, JJ, not to mention lesser failings of McLouth, Glaus and others.

Well we did get Walden for Hanson, which is ****ing mind blowing.

 

[Heyward]

"Luck? Maybe."

I prefer to call it EGO!!!!

EGO kept JJ and Hanson in Atl a year or so to long also.

I was under the impression that you were supposed to sell high and buy low. That went by the wayside with Wren and his actions -- Lowe, KK, Uggly, BJ, Hanson, JJ, not to mention lesser failings of McLouth, Glaus and others.

Using this logic, we should trade Kimbrel now since his value wont be any higher, right?

 

[Gary82]

Using this logic, we should trade Kimbrel now since his value wont be any higher, right?

Well...

 

[nsacpi]

Winter meetings start next week. Frank Wren asked me for a memo. Here it is Frank:

We have no pressing needs. Doing nothing is a viable option. We do have what I would describe as some secondary needs or goals.

Goals
1. Acquire a lefty for pen
2. Move Uggla (and as much of his contract as possible)
3. Acquire a second baseman (could be part of 2 above or done independently)
4. Acquire a starting pitcher (in doing so would solve the need for a lefty in the pen by bumping Wood to the pen)

Tradeable Assets or Areas of Surplus
1. A large number of near major league ready RH pitchers slated for AAA. Starters: Hale, Martin, Schlosser, Northcraft. Relievers: Vasquez, Obispo, Lamm, Jaime, Harper.
2. Fourth outfielder types: Schafer, Constanza, Terdoslavich, Cunningham
3. Bethancourt. If Gattis is our catcher the next five years, Bethancourt becomes our most valuable trade chip.

A couple trade ideas with teams with whom we match up well:

1. Bethancourt, Cody Martin and Shae Simmons to the Cubs for Samardzija. They have a lot of young hitting talent in the minors but are a bit thin at pitching and catcher in their rebuilding project. Potentially we could expand the above trade with the Cubs by adding more young pitching in exchange for them taking Uggla and most of his contract. I would not part with Sims and Cabrera, however, as part of any such trade.

2. Hale and Uggla to the Angels for Kendrick. The Angels need starting pitching. They are also close to the luxury tax threshold and trying to avoid it. So they want young cheap pitching. We can also get creative in moving some money to compensate for the salary difference between Uggla and Kendrick. We could pay most of any money moved this year (which helps them re the luxury tax in 2014) and minimize the amount we pay for Uggla's salary in 2015 (which would help us with a looming budget crunch in 2015).

 

[Heyward]

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves 3h
Wren said #Braves have had plenty of talks w/ agents, teams: "Putting ourselves in position to add pieces we feel like would help us best.”

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves 3h
Wren said starting pitching, bullpen and bench are areas #Braves are considering, but won't look past anything that could help team.

 

[Knucksie]

I was under the impression that you were supposed to sell high and buy low.

Oh goody, we have another fantasy leaguer here. The only reason the team exists is to just move players in and out. Not like trying to build a champion means anything.

That went by the wayside with Wren and his actions -- Lowe, KK, Uggly, BJ, Hanson, JJ, not to mention lesser failings of McLouth, Glaus and others.

Nobody's added another new to the discussion on any of these, either here or over at Scout. The reason for any of these acquistions were justifiable at the time. All are different situations. They simply didn't have much of a rotation before Lowe & Kawakami. Bitching about Hanson and Jurrjens? Give me a freaking break. By this line of reasoning, they should've given up on Smoltz before he went to the psychologist. Neither obviously had that kind of upside, but you don't just ditch quality young starting pitching at the first sign of trouble. It's easy to sit here with the benefit of hindsight, and act as if you knew all along when their "value had maxed out" and their careers might not ever recover. Yeah, sure.

McLouth: the needed a CF and needed speed. It didn't work out. Too bad, but at least the guy's kept himself going and can still contributed. Glaus? Seriously? It was a "lightning in a bottle" type move that Schuerholz would've done, too. Not as if there was some huge investment or risk. That's part of why it got so annoying reading day in/day rants at Scout about Mondesi and Jordan.

If constructing a roster and managing a budget are so easy, why don't some of you shoot the Braves over your resumes? That might be a little more productive than venting on Daily DOB with the other yahoos.

 

[skillet]

Goals

1. Acquire a lefty for pen

2. Move Uggla (and as much of his contract as possible)

3. Acquire a second baseman (could be part of 2 above or done independently)

4. Acquire a starting pitcher (in doing so would solve the need for a lefty in the pen by bumping Wood to the pen)

nsacpi, I agree with #1. Since Venters will not be ready until a couple months into the season, another solid lefty for the pen would be a good move. I also would agree with #2, but only if we can get back at least $7MM to $8MM in salary relief, or $3.5MM/year to $4MM/year. Otherwise, I think we are better off keeping him and seeing if he can regain his form, or at least be a good power bat off the bench.

I do not agree with #3. I am very high on La Stella and hope he is given a legitimate shot at the starting gig in spring training, with Uggla (if not traded), Pastornicky and Pena all on board as other internal options. I also would rather us not do #4, as I am very high on our current 5 of Medlen, Minor, Beachy, Teheran and Wood, with Hale, Graham and Gilmartin in AAA as other options.

I would like to see us also bolster our bench, and see if we can lock up one or two of Simmons, Freeman or Heyward.

 

[nsacpi]

Goals
1. Acquire a lefty for pen
2. Move Uggla (and as much of his contract as possible)
3. Acquire a second baseman (could be part of 2 above or done independently)
4. Acquire a starting pitcher (in doing so would solve the need for a lefty in the pen by bumping Wood to the pen)

nsacpi, I agree with #1. Since Venters will not be ready until a couple months into the season, another solid lefty for the pen would be a good move. I also would agree with #2, but only if we can get back at least $7MM to $8MM in salary relief, or $3.5MM/year to $4MM/year. Otherwise, I think we are better off keeping him and seeing if he can regain his form, or at least be a good power bat off the bench.

I do not agree with #3. I am very high on La Stella and hope he is given a legitimate shot at the starting gig in spring training, with Uggla (if not traded), Pastornicky and Pena all on board as other internal options. I also would rather us not do not #4, as I am very high on our current 5 of Medlen, Minor, Beachy, Teheran and Wood, with Hale, Graham and Gilmartin in AAA as other options.

I would like to see us also bolster our bench, and see if we can lock up one or two of Simmons, Freeman or Heyward.

I'm sympathetic to the view that the internal options at second and starting pitching are good enough. But if we can acquire a proven player at those positions at reasonable cost using "surplus" players why not do it. Some extra depth and experience at both would be a good thing. In the trades I suggested I was careful to avoid solutions that involve taking on a risky contract (hello Brandon Phillips) or giving up players who we will be needing in a few years (Sims, Peraza, Cabrera).

 

[skillet]

A couple trade ideas with teams with whom we match up well:

1. Bethancourt, Cody Martin and Shae Simmons to the Cubs for Samardzija. They have a lot of young hitting talent in the minors but are a bit thin at pitching and catcher in their rebuilding project. Potentially we could expand the above trade with the Cubs by adding more young pitching in exchange for them taking Uggla and most of his contract. I would not part with Sims and Cabrera, however, as part of any such trade.

2. Hale and Uggla to the Angels for Kendrick. The Angels need starting pitching. They are also close to the luxury tax threshold and trying to avoid it. So they want young cheap pitching. We can also get creative in moving some money to compensate for the salary difference between Uggla and Kendrick. We could pay most of any money moved this year (which helps them re the luxury tax in 2014) and minimize the amount we pay for Uggla's salary in 2015 (which would help us with a looming budget crunch in 2015).

I'm not sure Samardzija would necessarily be an upgrade over Alex Wood. Yes he has a much bigger track record, but Alex showed a heck of a lot in his time this year. What is certain is that he would cost much more than Wood both in terms of dollars, but much more importantly, per your trade scenario, we'd lose Bethancourt, our 2nd or 3rd best prospect and potentially an average to excellent catcher for many years, and Shae Simmons, an excellent future relief prospect, not to mention Martin, though he is interchangeable. Why give up all that when he may not be any better, or only marginally better, than what we've already got?

As for Hale/Uggla for Kendrick, though I'd rather go with La Stella, that is a trade I could get behind if the money made sense, but I'm not sure why the Angels would do it. Kendrick is much better than Uggla and is owed $7.15MM less over the remaining two years of both guy's contracts. Even including Hale, we'd probably still have to pay all of Dan's contract. Though they'd drop from Kendrick to Uggla, a big drop, they would get out from Kendrick's $18.85MM owed to him over the two years and get David Hale. That might be enough to entice them to do the trade, though I'm not sure even that would do it. From our perspective, we'd have a big gain at 2nd base from Uggla to Kendrick, but would gain the $18.85MM in salary over two years and lose David Hale.

I'd much rather see if we can get someone to take on maybe $8MM of Ugglas contact and go with La Stella, and use the money to upgrade our pen (another good lefty), bolster the bench, and try to lock up one or two of Simmons/Freeman/Heyward/Minor.

 

[nsacpi]

I'm not sure Samardzija would necessarily be an upgrade over Alex Wood. Yes he has a much bigger track record, but Alex showed a heck of a lot in his time this year. What is certain is that he would cost much more than Wood both in terms of dollars, but much more importantly, per your trade scenario, we'd lose Bethancourt, our 2nd or 3rd best prospect and potentially an average to excellent catcher for many years, and Shae Simmons, an excellent future relief prospect, not to mention Martin, though he is interchangeable. Why give up all that when he may not be any better than what we've already got?

I have a very high opinion of Wood as well. I make this trade though because it is unrealistic to expect to go through an entire season with just five starters. Most teams have eight or so starters make at least 10 starts over the course of the season. We can count on someone getting hurt or turning into a pumpkin. I want to go into the playoffs with four healthy and effective starting pitchers. I don't want to end up with someone like Freddy Garcia (full credit to him for the great game he pitched against the Dodgers) starting an elimination game. So I am willing to sacrifice someone like Bethancourt to built up some starting pitching depth. To me five is not a magic number in terms of how many starting pitchers you want to have heading into a season.

 

[skidlee]

I have a very high opinion of Wood as well. I make this trade though because it is unrealistic to expect to go through an entire season with just five starters. Most teams have eight or so starters make at least 10 starts over the course of the season. We can count on someone getting hurt or turning into a pumpkin. I want to go into the playoffs with four healthy and effective starting pitchers. I don't want to end up with someone like Freddy Garcia (full credit to him for the great game he pitched against the Dodgers) starting an elimination game. So I am willing to sacrifice someone like Bethancourt to built up some starting pitching depth. To me five is not a magic number in terms of how many starting pitchers you want to have heading into a season.

well said

 

[50PoundHead]

nsacpi, you and I disagree on one point. I don't think any of the close-to-major league ready arms have any real value in trying to obtain usable parts. Only Hale has big league experience and his experience is abbreviated.

 

[nsacpi]

nsacpi, you and I disagree on one point. I don't think any of the close-to-major league ready arms have any real value in trying to obtain usable parts. Only Hale has big league experience and his experience is abbreviated.

I'm not sure we disagree much on that. Of all the trade chips I listed in my discussion, Bethancourt is far and away the most valuable. I've been paying some attention to BA's discussion of top prospects by league and by team. My reading of the tea leaves is that Bethancourt is fairly likely to make their Top 100 list when it comes out next year. It sounds like they will have him around 80 on the list.

Sims is going to be around 60. And Cabrera has a shot to make it in the Top 100. He is not as polished as Sims, but has the bigger fastball. To me Sims, Cabrera and Peraza are the keepers in our farm system.

 

[skillet]

I have a very high opinion of Wood as well. I make this trade though because it is unrealistic to expect to go through an entire season with just five starters. Most teams have eight or so starters make at least 10 starts over the course of the season. We can count on someone getting hurt or turning into a pumpkin. I want to go into the playoffs with four healthy and effective starting pitchers. I don't want to end up with someone like Freddy Garcia (full credit to him for the great game he pitched against the Dodgers) starting an elimination game. So I am willing to sacrifice someone like Bethancourt to built up some starting pitching depth. To me five is not a magic number in terms of how many starting pitchers you want to have heading into a season.

So sign someone like Bartolo Colon who wouldn't require a long term deal nor cost any prospects.

 

[nsacpi]

So sign someone like Bartolo Colon who wouldn't require a long term deal nor cost any prospects.

He is worth looking at on a one-year deal. Apparently the A's wanted him back for another year, but he was looking for 2 years. So they moved on to Kazmir.

 

[jcc03004]

Wren has had bad f.a signings yes but they did not look that bad when he made them. Kawakami was pretty good his first year and most were ecstatic to get Lowe would you rather have had aj Burnett Lowe actually pitched better then Burnett hid first two seasons and lets not forget without Lowe we are not the wild card champs in 2010. Uggla's extension was bad but at the time did it really seem like an overpay? The only one I thought was a overpay was Bj . Lets not forget the huddy extension that worked out rather well. Where wren has excelled is in trades. Renteria for jurrjens and Hernandez was an absolute steal. How about the Vazquez trade that was also a steal. Mclouth sucked while he was here but I did not hear anyone complaining at the time. Was EOF a wren signing I forget. How about picking up carpenter off the scrap heap any credit for that? The Bourne trade and yes I still think we got the better of the upton trade.

 

[Knucksie]

nsacpi, you and I disagree on one point. I don't think any of the close-to-major league ready arms have any real value in trying to obtain usable parts. Only Hale has big league experience and his experience is abbreviated.

No evidence that Cody Martin is MLB-ready. Why would anybody want to trade Betancourt, at this point? Keep him. "Ex-Cub Factor" still exists.

 

[cajunrevenge]

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves 3h
Wren said #Braves have had plenty of talks w/ agents, teams: "Putting ourselves in position to add pieces we feel like would help us best.”

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves 3h
Wren said starting pitching, bullpen and bench are areas #Braves are considering, but won't look past anything that could help team.

That looks like GM speak for "we arent going to make any significant moves this offseason". I would be surprised if the Braves signing any contracts with a total value of 5 million or more unless its extending a player we already have this offseason. Just filling out the bench and bullpen and hopefully extending any of our young talent.