Kimbrel's been perfect since his blown saves early in the year, but lets not forget he probably still wouldn't have this streak had Heyward not made an amazing catch to save what would've been a blown-save loss.
DOTW 9/4/'13: Is Kimbrel the best closer this organization has ever had?
- Thread starter ChapelHillMatt
- Start date
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
In the regular season the difference between Kimbrel and a good closer is marginal. Its in the postseason where elite closers prove their worth. Although Smoltz didnt have much playoff closing experience I feel confident that if it came to game 7 of the world series up by 1 run he would close that game no question. I dont have that same faith in Kimbrel just yet. If we are talking a closer for just the regular season then sure give me Kimbrel. If we are talking playoffs its Smoltz whether it be as starter, middle reliever, closer, ROOGY, LOOGY, or long reliever.
I'll take Smoltzie. And his 2003 was pretty comparable to Kimbrel's 2012. Especially when you adjust for the offensive era of 2003 and the offensive era of 2012. His 2002 would look much better overall as well if you take out his 8 run performance in the 2nd game of the yr.
Ugh that game.
I remember that off season. Mutts acquired Burnitz, Alomar, Mo Vaughn, Jeff D'Amico etc and we countered with Sheffield.
Huge series that was to start off. Luckily the injuries destroyed the Mets that year.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I think it's silly to look at things like this. Did Andruw Jones ever make plays for Smoltz?
And I'm not sure how Smoltz was more automatic, when pretty much every number says otherwise? (even ERA and WHIP, among the fancy stats).
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
I think that game pissed Smoltz off so much that he found another gear.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Lulz
In 2003 Smoltz had a 385 ERA+ last 2 years Kimbrel has been at 399 and 417 respectively. Not to mention the FIP advantage
You can make it pretty simple. Smoltz from 02-04 had a 173 ERA+, Kimbrel has in his 3 years as closer a 277.
And you can't play the if you remove one bad outing game. That's not how statistical analysis works. Sure you can say Smoltz's ERA looks worse than his results because of a bad outing, but then you rely on other stats which you immediately disqualify anyway.
BTW in the realm of weird facts. Kimbrel has 3 blown saves and 2 losses, He's let up runs in 4 games this year, meaning the 2 outcomes of Kimbrel coming in this year were not letting the opponent cross the plate, or they won. No blown save wins, no superfluous outings where he let up 2 runs but we were up by 5, etc. Pretty interesting.
Bobby or Fredi would have never left Kimbrel in to give up 8 runs. For some reason he let Smoltz.
ChapelHillMatt
Approaching Buddy Hernandez Territory
I think this debate is one where you really can't go wrong with either. It's all personal preference, both were/are top of the line elite closers. Both are automatic, when they enter the game it's pretty much over.
I agree with the poster that said the ideal scenario would be one where Smoltz started and Kimbrel closed.
I agree with the poster that said the ideal scenario would be one where Smoltz started and Kimbrel closed.
Smoltz was a great closer. Kimbrel's pitched like the grestest reliever of all time in his short tenure. His numbers dwarf Mariano. Blown Saves is a terrible stat, blowing a 1 run lead isnt the same as blowing a 2 or 3 run lead. You arent insulting to Smoltz to say Kimbrel was better, which he is easily by any stat out there.
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
No one is saying otherwise.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Agreed. Cox obviously just didn't trust him enough due to his lack of experience. It looks even worse now because Kimbrel has proven those numbers no fluke, etc. What was worse is Cox brought in Mike Dunn, who had already been struggling previously despite good overall numbers. Plus our options were limited minus Wagner as you note.
Also, Conrad gets most of the blame but Cox should've replaced him defensively in the 9th (especially after he'd already made two errors that game). Further, MLB Network showed that on that 9th inning error the umpire by second actually screened Conrad on the play (no one else considered that point at the time because they were too busy bashing Conrad).
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Agreed. But I'd still take Smoltz over Kimbrel in a big game situation. That's no knock on Kimbrel, it's just I consider Smoltz the best big game pitcher I have ever had the pleasure to watch pitch.
Runnin
Well-known member
Smoltz was smarter but had more experience before becoming a closer.
Kimbrel to be so dominant right out of the gate is just crazy. It's too good to be true. In fact I expect for his velocity to start falling soon, hopefully not from injury but history is not on his side. However, I thought the same thing last year and he was just as good.
Kimbrel to be so dominant right out of the gate is just crazy. It's too good to be true. In fact I expect for his velocity to start falling soon, hopefully not from injury but history is not on his side. However, I thought the same thing last year and he was just as good.