Driven: Andruw Jones

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The Tariff King

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Just watching it finally, and was interested that they spent a long segment of the show explaining how Andruw's defense was godly, and they even threw stats on the screen about how he has the most Defensive Runs Saved of any CF all-time, and his dWar is top 20 all time of any position.

Glav, Chipper, Writer from Talking Chop, Bowman, Terrence Moore, JS all were interviewed and said if he came through in this era he'd be much more appreciated and how fans really took him for granted. Ozzie Smith was brought up how his defense was on Andruw's level, but never had a comparable bat. Chipper of all people started talking about defensive metrics and stats that proved Andruw was one of the best players in baseball for a decade.

I'm hoping the writers review Andruw's case heavily next year and he stays on the ballot long enough to gain support and a push from the saber community similar to the push Rains is getting to get him in. I'm hoping the current logjam starts to cleanup and Andruw has enough votes to stay on.
 
I am old enough to have seen some of the great cfers, Mantle, Griffey Jr, Mays. I know people think Mays was the greatest, but for me Andruw was in a class of his own, he got to more balls than anyone in history and did it with ease, when other guys were trying for sliding catches, Andruw was just standing there waiting on it. He was incredible. If Andruw made a sliding catch it was because no one else would have been close enough to try.
 
I agree that if Andruw came up 10 years later he would of been considered a god among internet baseball nerds. He will be a casualty of the writers because the writers suck but there is hope down the road with the veterans committee. But yeah for like a 10 year stretch only Bonds and Arod were ahead of Andruw in WAR among position players. Of course Chipper was like 5th. We were spoiled heavily by the Jones boys and likely didn't appreciate them overall as we should have.
 
I'm not sure what all that piece gave as far as advanced stats go. But here are a couple.

1997-2006 WAR Leaders
1st Bonds - 79.5
2nd Arod - 72.9
3rd Andruw - 60.9

Considering the first 2 were steroid abusers and the entire steroid usage across the league who knows how Andruw really stacked up with his peers during this time.

Total defense

This comibines the position plus the runs the saved there. Since advanced data only started in 2002 it uses TZR for runs for any year prior to that.

1st is Ozzie and Andruw comes in at #9. Andruw is 1st among outfielders and it's not even close. He's over 100 runs better than Mays in 800 less games. Truly the best ever in the outfield.
 
As an aside. Something I didn't know is that our friend Brian Jordan comes in at #13 on the outfield defense list. He was great all the way until we traded him to the Dodgers. And Heyward currently sits at #19.
 
thewupk said:
I'm not sure what all that piece gave as far as advanced stats go. But here are a couple.

1997-2006 WAR Leaders
1st Bonds - 79.5
2nd Arod - 72.9
3rd Andruw - 60.9

Considering the first 2 were steroid abusers and the entire steroid usage across the league who knows how Andruw really stacked up with his peers during this time.

Total defense

This comibines the position plus the runs the saved there. Since advanced data only started in 2002 it uses TZR for runs for any year prior to that.

1st is Ozzie and Andruw comes in at #9. Andruw is 1st among outfielders and it's not even close. He's over 100 runs better than Mays in 800 less games. Truly the best ever in the outfield.
Click to expand...

I personally have suspicion that Andruw may have used also.
 
Andruw and the hall of fame really conflicts me. On one hand I think it should be the hall of fame not the hall of good. On the other hand I really love me some Andruw Jones. He should be in the hall of fame for telling Borass to shove it and re-sign with Atlanta. I think if you give him credit for being the top prospect of the modern era and all the "youngest to" accomplishments like his 2 HR in game 1 of the 96 world series that might push him over the top. Probably should get some votes just for being a key part of the division streak. Thats as unbeatable a record as there ever will be.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Andruw and the hall of fame really conflicts me. On one hand I think it should be the hall of fame not the hall of good. On the other hand I really love me some Andruw Jones. He should be in the hall of fame for telling Borass to shove it and re-sign with Atlanta. I think if you give him credit for being the top prospect of the modern era and all the "youngest to" accomplishments like his 2 HR in game 1 of the 96 world series that might push him over the top. Probably should get some votes just for being a key part of the division streak. Thats as unbeatable a record as there ever will be.
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Andruw was a HOF level player for 10 years. The problem is the fell off quickly and became mediocre/part timer at best a few years before going to Japan. If he had his career cut short due to injury like a Koufax I have no doubt he would be in right now. But the end of his career will leave a bad taste with many writers and I totally get that. His career marks imo leave him a tad short compared to other HOFers. But his peak though.....was certainly worthy.
 
I think Andruw can be lumped with Dale Murphy to some extent. Dominant players for a good stretch, but fell off the table badly late in their careers. Unfair at a level, because both these guys were superlative players.
 
50PoundHead said:
I think Andruw can be lumped with Dale Murphy to some extent. Dominant players for a good stretch, but fell off the table badly late in their careers. Unfair at a level, because both these guys were superlative players.
Click to expand...

Andruw isn't comparable to Murph. Only comp between the 2 is little production after 30. Andruw started younger and when his bat was involved his peaks were higher. Murph on the other hand ws basically all bat value driven.
 
His last year with the Braves was abysmal. He was equally as bad, if not worse, after getting his big contract with the Dodgers. The "sample size" brigade act as if it never happened. If he'd put up some decent offensive numbers toward the end and the Braves had won the '96 WS (he would have been Series MVP), then we wouldn't be continually be having these conversations. Whatever did or didn't happen at the Gold Club probably doesn't enhance his credentials, while Murph was a model citizen.

With the voters, only 2 players in the history of the sport have been inducted, due to (mostly) defensive abilities. These were Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski (voted in by Veteran's Committee). Ozzie was clearly immensely popular with fans and media, and both had memorable post season heroics.

The other issue, and despite whatever acceptance sabermetrics is receiving among more recent members of the BBWAA, there are certain precedents. Voters generally try to select players, who were the best of the best. Dale Murphy was unquestionably among the top players during the early to mid 80's. One of the most feared hitters. AJ never led any important offensive categories. These are things the voters look for, when reviewing candidates.
 
thewupk said:
I'm not sure what all that piece gave as far as advanced stats go. But here are a couple.

1997-2006 WAR Leaders

1st Bonds - 79.5

2nd Arod - 72.9

3rd Andruw - 60.9

Considering the first 2 were steroid abusers and the entire steroid usage across the league who knows how Andruw really stacked up with his peers during this time.

Total defense

This comibines the position plus the runs the saved there. Since advanced data only started in 2002 it uses TZR for runs for any year prior to that.

1st is Ozzie and Andruw comes in at #9. Andruw is 1st among outfielders and it's not even close. He's over 100 runs better than Mays in 800 less games. Truly the best ever in the outfield.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what makes it more impressive is that Bonds and ARod were on steroids while Andruw managed to do all that on plantains and lots of beer.
 
I would add Brooks Robinson to that last Knucksie. In fact he is very comparable to Andruw (minus Andruw flaming out early) to where he was a good offensive player on a bunch of good teams where his calling card was his defense.
 
thewupk said:
I would add Brooks Robinson to that last Knucksie. In fact he is very comparable to Andruw (minus Andruw flaming out early) to where he was a good offensive player on a bunch of good teams where his calling card was his defense.
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To add on to my post. Adrian Beltre is an interesting guy that will end up in the HOF as well. Offensively he's not anything special (for HOF standards) but will get to 3000 hits and maybe 500 homers due to playing almost every game and hardly being injured(which is it's own special trait). Yet for WAR purposes he's made his living playing elite defense.
 
Just blows my mind Andruw is the greatest defensive cf ever and did it for a decade and wont be considered.

Social media made Simmons glorious defense known to all fans. Andruw in this era would have done the same.
 
zitothebrave said:
Andruw isn't comparable to Murph. Only comp between the 2 is little production after 30. Andruw started younger and when his bat was involved his peaks were higher. Murph on the other hand ws basically all bat value driven.
Click to expand...

I was only comparing their late careers and not their qualities as players.
 
Forever Fredi said:
Just blows my mind Andruw is the greatest defensive cf ever and did it for a decade and wont be considered.

Social media made Simmons glorious defense known to all fans. Andruw in this era would have done the same.
Click to expand...

Yup. Imagine that late 90's spiderman catch blowing up on twitter. just a shame.
 
And he still should have won MVP in 2005. Screw Pooholes. Without Andruw that year we're a 4th/5th place team.
 
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