Economics Thread

[sturg33]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922832624403288084

What was happening to China was unsustainable. They now know they will have to negotiate in good faith because if Trump and team don't get the systemic changes they demand the tariffs can go right back up and the CCP can suffer again.

When all the concessions come in it will be fun to see the back tracks around these parts....

Why do they now know? Trump reduced their tariffs by 80% in exchange for nothing. They know that now.

Such a shame Trump was on the verge of bringing our communist enemy to their knees but then decided to let them off the hook

Maybe the TikTok founder made a call

 

[sturg33]

Until it becomes accurate like the drop in egg prices?

No but I am curious about that $1.98 gasoline

 

[sturg33]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922989522876342591

Of course they are - Suppliers generally take the majority of the hit when tariffs are instituted.

Sorry experts.

LOL. Or they may have saw how the president reacted to Amazon saying they would display the cost of tariffs and didn't want to be accused of being a hostile political actor?

Or, as chop posted, they later explain they will be raising prices?

Lastly, we've explained to you many times that the mega corps can withstand these price increases much easier than small businesses. But then again, Trump policies are known for wiping our small businesses

(enjoy the benefit of not having the burden to actually debate anything with me while still claiming you're right about everything)

 

[sturg33]

Incredibly consistent message.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

the tariffs are bout the border! No they're about fentanyl! no they are about decoupling the world from china! No I mean they are about getting freer trade with everyone! no I mean it's about destroying china, it's all about china! No I mean, we can lighten up on china for another 90 days but now they know!!!!

They won't increase costs! I mean, they will some of the time. Consumers won't feel it. But of course they will feel some of it!

so consistent

 

[zitothebrave]

I get all the skepticism, but the news has been good on the outcomes here so far.

Prices aren’t up, and trade terms seem to be shifting to favorable

If this lands like people hope it will, look out.

Do you know how ordering works?

I'm asking this because I don't think you know. Major companies buy stuff well in advance, Walmart buys their christmas product in July. So any effect from the tariffs hasn't been felt yet. Especially because I know people didn't place orders when tariffs were 145% which is going to lead to a stock ripple. Freight ships from China take 2-4 weeks to reach the west coast ports and 3-5 for east coast ports. That's not including of course time it takes to get to the docks, time it takes for containers to be unloaded from docks, and times it takes from orders from the docks to get shipped to warehouses in USA. Which is why there's months delays.

We're looking at purchasing a berkel slicer for the business, tehy're top notch, best in the business cost about 8500 and is going to have a 7% increase on June 1st so it will move it to around 9100. A true solid door reach in is going from about 4900 to about 5200 also on June 1st. I don't know if you're watching trends on consumer prices but they're showing there too. I already talked about treager price hikes. Anova is increasing prices. Thermaten is increasing prices, I got notified by the home brewing supply company I back that uses pretty much exclusively american made products have talked about potentially increasing prices. XBox increased pricing, Sony is likely to increase pricing. That's not factoring in companies who haven't announced products and their costs because they don't know what is going on.

You won't see the first effects of trump aside form predictive price raises hidden behind sales until the products hit the warehouse and bless the souls of people who shipped stuff with 145% tarrifs.

I was planning on holding on buying a new mower because my 9 year old gasser is probably falling apart soon. But now I need to decide am I going to get it now, or just really wait it out and not care.

 

[acesfull86]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

the tariffs are bout the border! No they're about fentanyl! no they are about decoupling the world from china! No I mean they are about getting freer trade with everyone! no I mean it's about destroying china, it's all about china! No I mean, we can lighten up on china for another 90 days but now they know!!!!

They won't increase costs! I mean, they will some of the time. Consumers won't feel it. But of course they will feel some of it!

so consistent

The only “smart” aspect of this strategy is leaving the door so wide open that you can declare victory no matter what

 

[thethe]

Do you know how ordering works?

I'm asking this because I don't think you know. Major companies buy stuff well in advance, Walmart buys their christmas product in July. So any effect from the tariffs hasn't been felt yet. Especially because I know people didn't place orders when tariffs were 145% which is going to lead to a stock ripple. Freight ships from China take 2-4 weeks to reach the west coast ports and 3-5 for east coast ports. That's not including of course time it takes to get to the docks, time it takes for containers to be unloaded from docks, and times it takes from orders from the docks to get shipped to warehouses in USA. Which is why there's months delays.

We're looking at purchasing a berkel slicer for the business, tehy're top notch, best in the business cost about 8500 and is going to have a 7% increase on June 1st so it will move it to around 9100. A true solid door reach in is going from about 4900 to about 5200 also on June 1st. I don't know if you're watching trends on consumer prices but they're showing there too. I already talked about treager price hikes. Anova is increasing prices. Thermaten is increasing prices, I got notified by the home brewing supply company I back that uses pretty much exclusively american made products have talked about potentially increasing prices. XBox increased pricing, Sony is likely to increase pricing. That's not factoring in companies who haven't announced products and their costs because they don't know what is going on.

You won't see the first effects of trump aside form predictive price raises hidden behind sales until the products hit the warehouse and bless the souls of people who shipped stuff with 145% tarrifs.

I was planning on holding on buying a new mower because my 9 year old gasser is probably falling apart soon. But now I need to decide am I going to get it now, or just really wait it out and not care.

You missed the part where tariffs aren't paid until ships come into the dock so anything that was orderred in March was still subject to the tariffs.

And again, prices will increase its about how much is shifting to the consumer. But of course if you purchasing directly from the manufacturer more of hte total price increase will be born on by you.

 

[zitothebrave]

Trump Tells Tim Cook to Stop Building iPhones in India

President Donald Trump has asked Apple CEO Tim Cook to halt the company's manufacturing expansion in India, in a potential disruption of...

www.macrumors.com

"They [India] have offered us a deal where basically they have agreed to charge us literally no tariffs. I said 'Tim, we are treating you really good, we put up with all the plants you built in China for years. We are not interested in you building in India. India can take care of themselves'."

He really wants to kill american companies. I'ts not enough that they comply with his asinine trade war with China, he wants people to spend over 2K on an iPhone and ergo we either wind up in hyper inflation, or people don't buy new phones regularly and you kill apple. All for manufacturing jobs that people in America don't want to work.

 

[thethe]

Trump Tells Tim Cook to Stop Building iPhones in India

President Donald Trump has asked Apple CEO Tim Cook to halt the company's manufacturing expansion in India, in a potential disruption of...

www.macrumors.com

He really wants to kill american companies. I'ts not enough that they comply with his asinine trade war with China, he wants people to spend over 2K on an iPhone and ergo we either wind up in hyper inflation, or people don't buy new phones regularly and you kill apple. All for manufacturing jobs that people in America don't want to work.

Sounds like to me he is keeping leverage in negotiations with India.

But it would be great once automation reduces costs for manufacturing for a large chunk of it to be done in America.

I know Americans can't handle not getting a new iphone every six months so it'll be tough for those people.

 

[zitothebrave]

You missed the part where tariffs aren't paid until ships come into the dock so anything that was orderred in March was still subject to the tariffs.

And again, prices will increase its about how much is shifting to the consumer. But of course if you purchasing directly from the manufacturer more of hte total price increase will be born on by you.

ANd when I have to spend 10 more dollars to buy something necessary to run my business, I'm supposed to eat that instead of passing that along to the consumer?

Again, big business like walmart won't balk at something like a Yeti Tumbler going from 10 to 11 dollars because they sell it on volume, they just won't price break it. Same thing with a big grocery store, they can just not run sales. It's the mom and pops who already are running on margins thinner than they want.

IN the case of what I'm talking about you're going to see people instead of buying a Berkel slicer, hobart mixer or True Regerator, they'll buy the cheap chinese product Avantco. Instead of buying GE lightbulbs they'll but the Chinese knockoffs. Instead of a Samsung they'll buy a Huwai (sp)

 

[zitothebrave]

Sounds like to me he is keeping leverage in negotiations with India.

But it would be great once automation reduces costs for manufacturing for a large chunk of it to be done in America.

I know Americans can't handle not getting a new iphone every six months so it'll be tough for those people.

It would be great if automation can replace human need in manufacturing. But we're not close to that. So speculating on it is stupid and crushing your economy on the speculative future is moronic.

 

[thethe]

It would be great if automation can replace human need in manufacturing. But we're not close to that. So speculating on it is stupid and crushing your economy on the speculative future is moronic.

Not close?

The rate of increase of the rate of increase is growing exponentially. We may very well have the means to significantly reduce manufacturing costs due to automation within a 2-3 year window.

Therefore, the infrastructure has to be built now so we are ready to go when the time comes.

This should ABSOLUTELY be in the US and all the luddites on here espousing free trade lack the necessary vision to ensure hte safety and security of America.

 

[thethe]

ANd when I have to spend 10 more dollars to buy something necessary to run my business, I'm supposed to eat that instead of passing that along to the consumer?

Again, big business like walmart won't balk at something like a Yeti Tumbler going from 10 to 11 dollars because they sell it on volume, they just won't price break it. Same thing with a big grocery store, they can just not run sales. It's the mom and pops who already are running on margins thinner than they want.

IN the case of what I'm talking about you're going to see people instead of buying a Berkel slicer, hobart mixer or True Regerator, they'll buy the cheap chinese product Avantco. Instead of buying GE lightbulbs they'll but the Chinese knockoffs. Instead of a Samsung they'll buy a Huwai (sp)

Absolutely not - You choose whatever you want to do with those increased costs. Then its up to your customers to determine what to do with your decisions.

But your good slicer will last you how long? How many meals/fractional meals are made with the benefit of this slicer?

What do you think that means in terms how much of a cost increase you would need to recover those costs within a year?

Think Zito - Think.

 

[sturg33]

I know Americans can't handle not getting a new iphone every six months so it'll be tough for those people.

You really are a full blown, Bernie Sanders socialist

 

[zitothebrave]

Absolutely not - You choose whatever you want to do with those increased costs. Then its up to your customers to determine what to do with your decisions.

But your good slicer will last you how long? How many meals/fractional meals are made with the benefit of this slicer?

What do you think that means in terms how much of a cost increase you would need to recover those costs within a year?

Think Zito - Think.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. As the price gap between american owned company who imports parts from china or has rigorous standards and cheap chinese products increases people change. WE've already done this as we slid from Wells Waffle Makers to Carnival King. Because a circuit board for a Wells costs more than a whole Carnival King Waffle Iron. You'll see the same thing where instead of buying an american prodcut that employs americans people will just buy the cheap chinese product because the costs flip so high.

Basically what you're saying is that Americans shouldn't pick American companies and instead should pick CHinese dropshippers.

 

[zitothebrave]

Not close?

The rate of increase of the rate of increase is growing exponentially. We may very well have the means to significantly reduce manufacturing costs due to automation within a 2-3 year window.

Therefore, the infrastructure has to be built now so we are ready to go when the time comes.

This should ABSOLUTELY be in the US and all the luddites on here espousing free trade lack the necessary vision to ensure hte safety and security of America.

We're not close. If we were close we'd be doing something close to it. We can get there but doing it at scale isn't close. Much less doing it at scale that it can replace cheap chinese labor.

 

[thethe]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. As the price gap between american owned company who imports parts from china or has rigorous standards and cheap chinese products increases people change. WE've already done this as we slid from Wells Waffle Makers to Carnival King. Because a circuit board for a Wells costs more than a whole Carnival King Waffle Iron. You'll see the same thing where instead of buying an american prodcut that employs americans people will just buy the cheap chinese product because the costs flip so high.

Basically what you're saying is that Americans shouldn't pick American companies and instead should pick CHinese dropshippers.

American businesses should absolutely pick whatever is best for them.

But you gave examples of equipment that would cost more due to tariffs and then you said 'why should I have to eat those costs increases' I agreed its your decision and then wanted to work out the math to you on how much of an increase per meal where you can recover that cost within a year.

You know the answer is miniscule so you would rather not continue that conversation.

 

[thethe]

We're not close. If we were close we'd be doing something close to it. We can get there but doing it at scale isn't close. Much less doing it at scale that it can replace cheap chinese labor.

This just isn't accurate - The rate of increase is staggering on what humanoid robots can do. Once they can do a portion of the lift then pulling together a factory becomes significantly cheaper.

Again, the increase in advancement right now is staggering. There really is nothing else to say. We need to plan now to be ready for it.

 

[zitothebrave]

American businesses should absolutely pick whatever is best for them.

But you gave examples of equipment that would cost most due to tariffs and then you said 'why should I have to eat those costs increases' I agreed its your decision and then wanted to work out the math to you on how much of an increase per meal where you can recover that cost within a year.

You know the answer is miniscule so you would rather not continue that conversation.

Nope you're not reading. What I'm saying is if I can either spend 10K on a berkel or 3K on a comparable chinese product hat's got some issues, because I can buy more of them when they shit the bed instead of buying a product that will last decades and be repairable. Passing the costs to consumer on a product like this isn'ta problem. But if I'm running a retail shop and a shirt moved from 15 dollars to 18 dollars. My options are to increase prices to keep my profitibility or stop carrying that prodcut or be less profitable. None of those are good for business.

 

[zitothebrave]

This just isn't accurate - The rate of increase is staggering on what humanoid robots can do. Once they can do a portion of the lift then pulling together a factory becomes significantly cheaper.

Again, the increase in advancement right now is staggering. There really is nothing else to say. We need to plan now to be ready for it.

We dont' need humanoid robots for assmbly. We need specialized robots to do things. If you're talking about iphones you would have a phone assembly machine that is tweaked by the manufacturer for specific phones. A humanoid robot is a giant waste of product for something simplistic.

Again, the cost is not comparable. I'm fine with planning for things. I don't care about that. Tariffs have fuck all to do with that. Make government grants or make it a government project if that's your concern. Tanking american economy because of future planning is stupid.