Evaluating Managers
- Thread starter Nerfherders
- Start date
NYCBrave
Well-known member
It's not about injuries, look at the lineup from the first game on. It's been highly publicized that players like routine, so a manager slotting them in a different part of the lineup every game is ridiculous.
NYCBrave
Well-known member
Out of curiosity, what qualities of these managers make you consider them good managers?
Fredi is a great manager. His record as manager of the braves is good.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Up until recently I lived in the Bay area and got to follow the A's and Giants fairly closely. With Bochy, I would say I'm impressed by how he manages one way during most of the season and then a different way in a close pennant race and post-season. Uses big sample size to make decisions in the former, and smaller sample size (who's hot and who's not) to make decisions in the latter. He's made some tough calls. Leaving Zito off the WS roster in 2010, but going with him when he was pitching well in 2012. Melvin has done very well with the A's with a team that is young, low cost, and really doesn't have any great players. He fits in very well within the organizational ethos of using every scrap of information.
With Girardi, I think he did exceptionally well last year with an old beat up team. He has also won a WS with a more talented group. So he has done well with good teams and bad. And yes last year's Yankees were a bad team.
Francona has won with Boston. And he turned a club around last year that has far fewer resources and star players. He seems to be a very good sifter of information. Maddon is also known for doing a good job using all the information available. I like the way he is willing to shift players around and up and down the lineup based upon circumstances and matchups.
All of the above do a good job with their bullpens and maneuvering to get a good matchup in key situations. I think Bochy is especially good in that regard. Part of my frustration with Fredi's bullpen management arises from the fact I've watched someone (Bochy) who is really good at it.
If a player is affected by where he hits in the lineup (negatively) that is an issue with the player. If he all of a sudden can't hit because he was moved from 5th to 6th, then he has some issues.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
I think he is a very good manager. I'm not kidding.
His in-game decisions have improved - I thought his first year he overmanaged, then rode his horses too long when he needed to switch. I've been generally pleased the last two seasons, though I agree with some of those pointing out that he's wearing out his bullpen with unnecessary warmups this season. In fairness, the real problem there is that those guys aren't pitching very well.
Where he really excels is off the field, where he does a fairly decent Bobby imitation. And that won't show up in the Pythagorean numbers.
As for batting BJ second, he's trying to boost the confidence of a guy who has performed in the past who hasn't performed, and also help him see a few more pitches. BJ isn't a spreadsheet of numbers distilled down to WAR - he's a human being, and a sensitive one at that. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.
If you think about it, every single strategic decision any manager makes is subject to second guessing. When it works, the players performed. When it doesn't, the manager is an idiot (see Avilan). And that's as it should be. At least 30% of his salary, maybe more, is for taking heat.
We could do a hell of a lot worse than Fredi Gonzalez.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
It's more-so having two of the Nats better hitters, hitting 6th-7th.
The lineup before the injuries was Span, Rendon, Zimm, LaRoche, Werth, Harper, Desmond, Lobaton.
No way in the world Harper/Desmond should be 6-7.
Not like it matters, but what should their order be? I don't agree with Williams, but he put Harper close to the bottom because he was struggling.
The ACTUAL lineup before injuries was Span, Zimmerman, Werth, Ramos, Harper, Desmond, Laroche, Rendon
I would go:
Span
Werth
Zimmerman
Harper
Desmond
Laroche
Ramos
Rendon
Rendon is such a good hitter to be hitting 8th though.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Did he really have Ramos hitting cleanup?
NYCBrave
Well-known member
Wrong. That was the lineup in the first game of the season, but it changed every game after. Check it out.
Im not wrong. That was his lineup. Ramos was injured in the first game of the year. Since then there have been injuries to Span, Werth, Harper, and Zimmerman.
Is the lineup going to be the same every game, of course not.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Joe Maddon is a good manager, but I'm convinced he f*cks around for the sake of f*cking around. A lot of line-up shuffling for no apparent reason. Lots of guys logging a lot of innings out of position. He reminds me some of Gene Mauch without all of the goofy in-game managing. You guys think Fredi bunts too much. I watched a ton of Mauch in his heyday when he managed the Twins and he was always bunting.
For me, it's all pretty simple. The bad managers are the ones who look like they are managing when the game is on. 90% of the game takes care of itself if you put players in a position to succeed. The rest of the strategy stuff is pretty straightforward.
For me, it's all pretty simple. The bad managers are the ones who look like they are managing when the game is on. 90% of the game takes care of itself if you put players in a position to succeed. The rest of the strategy stuff is pretty straightforward.
NYCBrave
Well-known member
You are wrong. Look at the first 10 games of the season, prior to Span's injury. Rendon, Harper and Desmond were flopping all over the lineup card. That wasn't due to Ramos injury.
Go look and report back your findings.
My God, are you dense?
They have played 13 games. 1 game they started the game with everybody healthy. I posted the lineup.
(when in lineup)
In every game Span was healthy, he batted first
In very game Werth was healthy, he batted third
In every game outside of game 1, Laroche has batted 4th .
In every game outside of 2 games, Zimmerman batted 5th
In every game, Leon/Labaton batted 8th
Harper, Desmond, and Rendon have moved around as more and more guys have gotten injured and whether or not a lefty or righty was starting.
(ps this is already the dumbest argument of all-time; LINEUP CONSTRUCTION!!!! ARGH!)
They have played 13 games. 1 game they started the game with everybody healthy. I posted the lineup.
(when in lineup)
In every game Span was healthy, he batted first
In very game Werth was healthy, he batted third
In every game outside of game 1, Laroche has batted 4th .
In every game outside of 2 games, Zimmerman batted 5th
In every game, Leon/Labaton batted 8th
Harper, Desmond, and Rendon have moved around as more and more guys have gotten injured and whether or not a lefty or righty was starting.
(ps this is already the dumbest argument of all-time; LINEUP CONSTRUCTION!!!! ARGH!)