Extent Ender

gilesfan said:
If you believe he's a 5 win player, you don't let him go.
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I think we can sign him for his age 30 and 31 seasons at a price that is the going free agent rate for a 2 win player. If you can do that you do it, whether he be a 3 win or 5 win player. There is downside. But also upside. Some of these deals have turned out to be enormously beneficial for the teams involved. The Altuve deal for example. That is an extreme example. But there is some upside in all of the deals, along with the downside. On balance, they have worked out very well for the teams. Much better than free agent signings.
 
This comment won't add much to the conversation. I think he's a good player who does a few things that don't show up in the box score (which tend to get discounted as nsacpi pointed out). I frankly don't know what I would do. There is some risk with his bat falling off, but he does a lot of things well. If he's willing to sign for what nsacpi suggests, I would probably go that direction. I think he's marketable if Mallex turns out to be a better player.
 
I remember when I was mocked ruthlessly on this board for daring to claim that Ender was a top 100 player. And by mocked ruthlessly I mean maybe one poster had a minor grump about my claim. Be that as it may, I also believe we should extent Ender. I'm afraid he'll be traded though.
 
weso1 said:
I remember when I was mocked ruthlessly on this board for daring to claim that Ender was a top 100 player. And by mocked ruthlessly I mean maybe one poster had a minor grump about my claim. Be that as it may, I also believe we should extent Ender. I'm afraid he'll be traded though.
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top 100 position player or top 100 player overall?
 
Tapate50 said:
He needs to be turned (turnt?) loose on the basepaths a bit more.

ATL is where SB threats go to let their theft skills go to ****.
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It's the place where greyhounds turn into poky little puppies.

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Depending on what his terms are, I say we absolutely wrap him up for a longer term. Further, I'm OK with trading Mallex.
 
I look at it more through the lens of roster construction.

The team, to be good, needs a certain amount of power, HR and doubles. History shows that the vast majority of playoff teams finish at league average or better in HR hit.

To a certain extent, and like it or not, the lack of power is why Kemp was acquired (I certainly understand the need for power but question why it had to be Kemp whose other flaws now have to be accounted for).

Given that Markakis is way below average for his position in the power department, as is 3B, C, SS and 2B and the fact that 1B is now average or maybe a little better at this point (hopefully the hot streak is the new normal), then I can't see any way you can play BOTH Mallex and Inciarte in the same outfield on the same day on a consistent basis and expect to generate enough power to be able to win consistently no matter how good their defense might be.

Once you arrive at that conclusion, then you have to accept that either Inciarte OR Mallex is a 4th outfielder on a good team if they are playing on the same team. If you judge that the talent level of one (let's say Mallex as an example) is no better than being a 4th OF, then no problem, keep them both, start Inciarte and use Mallex as a GP 4th outfielder. BUT, if you consider both potential starters at CF on a good team, and other teams view them that way as well and are willing to give up significant talent in return in trade, then you HAVE to trade one or the other or maybe even both given the right return.

If you are a rebuilding team you don't have the luxury of sitting valuable players on the bench for the majority of a MLB season when they could bring value in return. Teams like the Cubs can afford to do that because they don't have a ton of holes to fill and they can justify keeping a lot of young bench talent (and keep them happy) by pointing to the fact that they are contending.

Now, everyone should note that I don't say get rid of him (either) for the sake of getting rid of him. What I say is if you have two really nice right foot shoes but no left foot shoes it makes sense to try to find someone with a matching left foot shoe that fits your needs and give up the un-needed RF shoe.
 
Ender doesn't have to be in the long term plans for an extension to make sense. If the extension increases his value, then he can simply be traded if the need arises. Surplus value is surplus value, and it can benefit a club in many ways.

My issue is extending a player into his 30s whose value is tied into defense, which declines at a much younger age than offense does. By 27 his defense will start to decline, and suddenly the Braves will be stuck with a .700 OPS CFer with average defense contributing 2 WAR instead of 3-4 WAR.

While I think your $20M value for his 4 Arb years is probably a pretty decent estimate, I don't think he will be so willing to sell his age 30 and 31 seasons for $10M per. Players want to either reach FA by 30, or sign an extension large enough to take them into their mid 30s, so he will probably want much closer to $15M per for his FA years. At that point I think I would try to do something like 4/18 plus a 5th option year at $12M-$15M with a $2M buyout. If the Braves buy him out he still gets the 4/20 he would have gotten in Arb. If they exercise the option he still hits the FA market after his age 30 season.
 
Chico said:
I like Ender, but I'm not sure who you keep over he and Mallex. I think the decision will come down to their value with whomever we're negotiating with in the offseason.
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I don't really know if it's a question - you keep Ender. Mallex could be REALLY good, but he's unproven. Ender is an all-world defensive centerfielder that can hit well.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
I don't really know if it's a question - you keep Ender. Mallex could be REALLY good, but he's unproven. Ender is an all-world defensive centerfielder that can hit well.
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It's a very valid question. If the choice is between:

A. Ender in CF with Mallex on the bench and Garcia at 3B
B. Mallex in CF with Baez at 3B

I think THAT choice is clear to keep Mallex and trade Ender.
 
I'm good with an Ender for Baez trade, unfortunately the Cubs, especially Maddon greatly value his versatility so I doubt this happens.
 
gilesfan said:
Wait, huh? His line is .263/.303/.316
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I should have said that there's more evidence to support the notion that he doesn't have severe splits. He's not a big-time hitter regardless, but I'm not going to platoon a guy who isn't terrible against lefties with his D in CF.
 
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