FA Starting Pitching Market

nsacpi

Expects Yuge Games
The glut of starting pitching about to hit the market is going to open up some opportunities for a lot of teams if they are willing to be patient. Maybe even the Braves.

I'd like for this thread to discuss what kind of pitchers might be worth looking at. Let's try first to do this without naming a particular pitcher. Let's talk about the considerations the Braves (and any team for that matter) might want to use to rank the pitchers. After we've discussed the principles, we can then move on to particular pitchers who will be on the market.

For me it is about finding the best bang for the buck. So here are some general principles:

1) Look for someone who might have had an off season in 2015 relative to his baseline of recent years.

2) Look for someone whose performance might have been hurt by the ballpark/division/league he was playing in. At the same time, try to avoid (or at least take into account) those whose performances might have been helped by playing environment.

3) Look for a pitcher whose peripherals (walk and strikeout rates) held up better in 2015 than other stats such as ERA or wins. In particular, don't give too much weight to their 2015 HR/flyball ratio.

4) Avoid pitchers with a significant downward trend in velocity.

5) Give bonus points to ground ball pitchers on the assumption that our infield defense will continue to be a strength over the next few years.

6) Also give bonus points for ability to pitch deep into games. I would like someone who has gone 200 or more innings in at least two of the past three years.

7) A strikeout to walk ratio of at least 2 to 1 in recent years is something I would also look for.

Thoughts on the above? What else?
 
I do not think this will be a strategy the Braves will employ. They will not be acquiring any significant major league starting pitching.

I do understand that you think - probably correctly - that we stockpiled pitching at a time where hitters are at a premium. But I don't think we will acquire much (any) more.

I think we are more likely to acquire a power hitting outfielder and an offensive catcher.
 
These are all great things to look for in a pitcher. Unfortunately I think this ship might have already sailed in MLB. Big spenders like the Yankees, Cubs and Dodgers are all going to be willing to pay for players that might have outperformed their traditional numbers. Having these kind of minds with the budgets they are given seems fairly frightening to those of us cheering for other teams.
 
I don't know. We acquired a bunch of pitching but there are rumors of us moving Tehran.

this staff believes in vet leadership, so Im not sure we'll have a rotation with a bunch of guys under 25.

If we have a protected pick you'd think we could go for a big fish, but maybe the years scare us away.....7 years would scare me.

I think we'll target one or two next tier guys. Like the Fister level of guy. Maybe we can over pay a little to keep the contact length down. And I hope we don't trade Tehran unless we get a stud position player w/o having to throw in anything else.
 
i'm not sure we can survive without 3.88 xFIP ACE Alex Wood.
May as well mail it in forever.
 
Contract length is also important. I'm willing to trade off a higher AAV for shorter contract. Ideally we can get someone on a 2 or 3 year deal plus an option year. The option year is important with pitchers because it gives the club a chance for some upside if the pitcher stays healthy and effective.
 
I think the answer is to buy low on someone like Verlander. But, if we are only talking FA, I would go after Leake, Latos, and/or Lincecum for the rotation. Beachy, Feliz, Hunter, and/or Eric O' for the bullpen.
 
Contract length is also important. I'm willing to trade off a higher AAV for shorter contract. Ideally we can get someone on a 2 or 3 year deal plus an option year. The option year is important with pitchers because it gives the club a chance for some upside if the pitcher stays healthy and effective.

The key.
 
I would add that you can sometimes find value in pitchers with injury concerns. The Braves are of course playing this card with younger prospects that have had TJ. Shoulder injuries scare the hell out of me, but injuries to legs / core / elbow seem to greatly effect the market for pitchers . . . perhaps too much. The biggest impact is on length of deal, so being smart about injury evaluation can be a good way to sign a quality pitcher to a short term deal. The Braves were very close to pulling this off last year with Brett Anderson.
 
Although it was done out of desperation, I like what we did with the Harang and Santana signings. We gave up a draft pick with Santana but gained it back (and turned it into Soroka) when we made the qualifying offer.
 
Braves could also go once again with the idea of trade for a veteran from another team that has a bad contract and bring back more players in return.

An example might be:

Matt Cain from SF who's owed $20M in 16 and 17 and has a $21M option ($7.5M buyout) for 2018.

Maybe something LIKE: Cain plus $15M plus 1B Christopher Shaw & C Aramis Garcia

OR

Maybe a Matt Garza plus Gilbert Lara and Clint Coulter coming from the Brewers.

The basic idea would be to use financial flexibility to add talent and take a chance on a rebound player.

AND, I would still like to see a real ACE like Price brought in.
 
The Braves could also target a guy that is just barely good enough to warrant his QO. While bonafide superstars aren't hurt much by a QO, the marginal players tend to be hurt much more by having a QO attached to them, like Santana did. Assuming the Braves have a protected pick (pretty safe assumption), they can wait for this year's Santana to fall to them at the end of the offseason.

They shouldn't target anyone. If a deal falls in their laps at the end of the offseason they should jump. If one doesn't, then stick with the young guys.
 
Braves could also go once again with the idea of trade for a veteran from another team that has a bad contract and bring back more players in return.

An example might be:

Matt Cain from SF who's owed $20M in 16 and 17 and has a $21M option ($7.5M buyout) for 2018.

Maybe something LIKE: Cain plus $15M plus 1B Christopher Shaw & C Aramis Garcia

OR

Maybe a Matt Garza plus Gilbert Lara and Clint Coulter coming from the Brewers.

The basic idea would be to use financial flexibility to add talent and take a chance on a rebound player.

AND, I would still like to see a real ACE like Price brought in.

This is the route I think we end up going. I hadn't thought about Cain, but I know MIL is trying to get rid of Garza.
 
I think the Braves will bring in an ACE and a MOR type of guy. I could be wrong, but I see lots of moves being made.
 
Braves could also go once again with the idea of trade for a veteran from another team that has a bad contract and bring back more players in return.

An example might be:

Matt Cain from SF who's owed $20M in 16 and 17 and has a $21M option ($7.5M buyout) for 2018.

Maybe something LIKE: Cain plus $15M plus 1B Christopher Shaw & C Aramis Garcia

OR

Maybe a Matt Garza plus Gilbert Lara and Clint Coulter coming from the Brewers.

The basic idea would be to use financial flexibility to add talent and take a chance on a rebound player.

AND, I would still like to see a real ACE like Price brought in.

Lara is likely completely untouchable.
 
Braves could also go once again with the idea of trade for a veteran from another team that has a bad contract and bring back more players in return.

An example might be:

Matt Cain from SF who's owed $20M in 16 and 17 and has a $21M option ($7.5M buyout) for 2018.

Maybe something LIKE: Cain plus $15M plus 1B Christopher Shaw & C Aramis Garcia

OR

Maybe a Matt Garza plus Gilbert Lara and Clint Coulter coming from the Brewers.

The basic idea would be to use financial flexibility to add talent and take a chance on a rebound player.

AND, I would still like to see a real ACE like Price brought in.

Keep Garza the **** off my mound. Garza is Cahill's Hispanic twin brother.
 
I think the Braves will bring in an ACE and a MOR type of guy. I could be wrong, but I see lots of moves being made.

After acquiring over twenty pitchers in the last nine months, why do you think this? What am I missing?

Isn't the next two years about the pitchers sorting themselves out?

We have a bunch of salary dump hitters and otherwise expiring contracts. Aren't we going to trade from pitching and acquire hitting? Isn't hitting our clear shortage?

I'm stupefied that so many smart people think we're going to go after pitching. With C, 3B and OF in the state they're in, aren't we far more likely to spend there, even if we overspend? (And if pitching is so plentiful, are we really overpaying, or just paying market value?)

I don't see free agent pitching - ace or anything else - being a target of our front office. They've said as much - I don't think Coppolella could have been any clearer about the inefficiency of acquiring free agent pitching.

So, again - why do we think we're going to go against everything our leadership has said publicly, about efficiency and Olivera being the first building block, and go get pitching?
 
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