Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
You forgot the "almost as old as McCann" part.
Farewell to Wood, Peraza, Jimmy Johns, and Avilans.
- Thread starter CrimsonCowboy
- Start date
You forgot the "almost as old as McCann" part.
That's an issue a lot of people had with Heyward. But you shouldn't hold that against him when talking about what he has accomplished. Of course Braves fans have a history of down playing a players overall value becuase they didn't live up to the hype offensively.
WaitingFor2017
Well-known member
Would Olivera be brought straight up or stay in the minors a bit longer?
zbhargrove
Well-known member
I'm not as worried about age with Olivera because he doesn't have a lot of playing miles on his body... but that concern is the reason why he doesn't have those mile is largely because of injuries.
striker42
Well-known member
Apparently he'd be brought up as soon as he's healthy. So in other words that would probably be in June of 2018.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Depends on how serious his hamstring injury is, I'd guess.
Deester11
Well-known member
COOL! That's about the time we'll see Toscano right?
I'm assuming he would be brought up...once he's healthy. He's been out 2 weeks with a hamstring injury, which is an injury that wasn't already part of his 'health concerns' package. In addition to the elbow and blood clots, he's out of shape because he hasn't played much baseball over the last 2-3 years.
In fact, based on that, maybe he does to to AAA to get in shape. Ugh.
WaitingFor2017
Well-known member
I hope something minor is found in Olivera's physical that negates the deal.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Remember, though, we get his age-36 year for free-ish if he has TJ surgery. It's possible at that point we could flip him for a top-50 prospect at the 2021 deadline.
ok... ok... after reading through 57 pages of "suffering" I've finally reached the end and can now add my humble thoughts to the thread.
1. Hart didn't suddenly become stupid or a bad GM
- After almost a year of winning most of the deals he's done, he didn't wake up one morning and forget everything he knows about baseball or decide to flush all the progress down the toilet on a whim. Doesn't mean this deal will work out in our favor or not, but in my eyes the guy has built up some trust. This means that he's really high on Olivera, I'm willing to let that play out and see what he does before I blast the deal. Hart isn't making this move if he thinks Olivera is breaking down in a year or two, he think this is a potential impact major-league ready bat for the next 5 years at a controllable price. That's pretty much exactly what we need. Again the bust potential is pretty high here -- we all get that, but there are PLENTY of hitters that don't fall off a cliff at ages 31-35.
2. Hart and company don't love Wood and Peraza
- Again, its clear Hart isn't as high on Wood and Peraza as other may be. Now, this doesn't mean they don't have value or aren't commodities - but it does mean that somewhere in the back of Hart's mind he's thinking the rest of the league is going to start seeing in these two what he sees; and he'd rather deal them while they still have a lot of value. In dealing Wood he's moving a very good, controllable starting pitcher after picking up Wisler, Folty, ManBan, Tyrell and many others during the off-season - this is why he picked up all these pitchers. With Peraza, not only is he blocked, but scouts have become increasingly wary of a kid that doesn't hit for much power or walk much at the AAA level.
3. There are other pieces involved
- A top-30 pick is a valuable commodity and the pitching prospect seems to have added velo this year and has some intrigue - I know its the society we live in -- but we don't have to judge everything RIGHT NOW, on paper I don't think the Braves got enough, I don't love this deal, but I'm willing to let it play out. Maybe Bird uses the velocity he's added and becomes a pretty good spec.
So while I don't love the return on this deal and I question the need to trade Wood and Peraza right now; I also have quite a bit of faith in Hart -- the guy is a very good GM. He's not going to win every trade, but he's not doing this willy-nilly. He obviously believes Olivera is an impact bat that we now have under control for 5 years. If that happens, and he stays healthy -- then I've got ZERO issue with this deal.
1. Hart didn't suddenly become stupid or a bad GM
- After almost a year of winning most of the deals he's done, he didn't wake up one morning and forget everything he knows about baseball or decide to flush all the progress down the toilet on a whim. Doesn't mean this deal will work out in our favor or not, but in my eyes the guy has built up some trust. This means that he's really high on Olivera, I'm willing to let that play out and see what he does before I blast the deal. Hart isn't making this move if he thinks Olivera is breaking down in a year or two, he think this is a potential impact major-league ready bat for the next 5 years at a controllable price. That's pretty much exactly what we need. Again the bust potential is pretty high here -- we all get that, but there are PLENTY of hitters that don't fall off a cliff at ages 31-35.
2. Hart and company don't love Wood and Peraza
- Again, its clear Hart isn't as high on Wood and Peraza as other may be. Now, this doesn't mean they don't have value or aren't commodities - but it does mean that somewhere in the back of Hart's mind he's thinking the rest of the league is going to start seeing in these two what he sees; and he'd rather deal them while they still have a lot of value. In dealing Wood he's moving a very good, controllable starting pitcher after picking up Wisler, Folty, ManBan, Tyrell and many others during the off-season - this is why he picked up all these pitchers. With Peraza, not only is he blocked, but scouts have become increasingly wary of a kid that doesn't hit for much power or walk much at the AAA level.
3. There are other pieces involved
- A top-30 pick is a valuable commodity and the pitching prospect seems to have added velo this year and has some intrigue - I know its the society we live in -- but we don't have to judge everything RIGHT NOW, on paper I don't think the Braves got enough, I don't love this deal, but I'm willing to let it play out. Maybe Bird uses the velocity he's added and becomes a pretty good spec.
So while I don't love the return on this deal and I question the need to trade Wood and Peraza right now; I also have quite a bit of faith in Hart -- the guy is a very good GM. He's not going to win every trade, but he's not doing this willy-nilly. He obviously believes Olivera is an impact bat that we now have under control for 5 years. If that happens, and he stays healthy -- then I've got ZERO issue with this deal.
Don't forget, though, that Olivera still has ~700-1000 games on his body from Cuba.
dak
Well-known member
Yeah, the Braves could just sent the Marlins an organizational depth player in exchange for the pick. Seems pretty simple.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I think the trades made mean a lot more, and we've won most of them.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
One great deal can make up for a lot of bad ones. The opposite is also true.
No I don't think it really does; this team isn't supposed to be winning this year - Hart came in with a plan to make the Braves viable long-term not in 2015. I think for the most part that's what he's done.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Yeah, there are a lot of factors here that argue for patience, or at least some caution in making immediate pronouncements about the benefit of this one. I'm skeptical—very—of this deal, but it's not exactly coming from outer space . . . we knew that we were going to trade some pitching for bats, and knew that we'd have to be creative in doing so.
My biggest concern is Olivera's health.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I'd agree. Still think we need to see it play out. Initially I'm not a big fan of it. Really trying to trust the FO's judgment here.
I appreciate the post, but if the best thing we can say about a deal is, 'Well, Hart didn't get stupid overnight,' that's not a good sign.
And while I agree on our FO not liking Wood and Peraza as much as others (the only way this deal gets done), they dealt them while they still had value...but for a lesser value than they still hold. It's ok to trade a guy when you feel his value is at it's highest...but you should always get his current value no matter what. This deal wouldn't do that.
The pick and Bird have some value, but I'll say again...you can argue we gave up the best 2 pieces in the trade. Best case scenario, we gave up 1 and 3 for 2 and a couple other decent pieces. That's not good, no matter what these guys do going forward.