France attack...

[Runnin]

Not wild about #1. Think the argument is a bit off. Instead of, "If an Islamist kills a westerner for a particular blasphemy, then the blasphemy itself must be embraced," I think the argument ought rather to be, "If an Islamist kills a westerner for a particular blasphemy, then the blasphemy itself must be defended (or recognized as being within one's right - or even must be seen as necessary, ala Douthat's argument)." I don't have to like the blasphemy but I probably ought to be defending the right of the person to make it, if I hope for the right to exist for long.

I agree. Murder is murder and there can be no laws about "blasphemy" in a pluralistic society. The less that word is even used the better, imho.

 

[50PoundHead]

Yeah, that's why I said in the first paragraph that we shouldn't have one in this French incident. That said, we should not be shy to say that these attacks were in direct response to blasphemy. The primary and publicly stated reason was Islamic, religious. The broader context of immigrant grievances and former colonialism can be, and should be factored in, but not given a weight that diminishes the Jihadist ideology.

But here's the rub. I know you are strongly anti-abortion, but I don't lump you in with Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder. Sure these French terrorists are subscribing to some notion of jihad, but I'm not going to lump all of Islam in with them.

 

[BedellBrave]

But here's the rub. I know you are strongly anti-abortion, but I don't lump you in with Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder. Sure these French terrorists are subscribing to some notion of jihad, but I'm not going to lump all of Islam in with them.

Nobody is asking you to do that. But to downplay the Islamic ideology of the Islamic jihadists is dangerous. This was an act in response to what is perceived to have been blaspheme. This wasn't an attack in response to perceived employment biases against North Africans in France.

And it's not just some notion of jihad - it is a hugely popular one. Like Bill Maher correctly notes, for far too many Muslims - not just your hard-core jihadists - if you insult the prophet, then all bets are off and your death will be cheered.

 

[50PoundHead]

Nobody is asking you to do that. But to downplay the Islamic ideology of the Islamic jihadists is dangerous. This was an act in response to what is perceived to have been blaspheme. This wasn't an attack in response to perceived employment biases against North Africans in France.

And it's not just some notion of jihad - it is a hugely popular one. Like Bill Maher correctly notes, for far too many Muslims - not just your hard-core jihadists - if you insult the prophet, then all bets are off and your death will be cheered.

Oh, don't get me wrong. It's real and the prevention of the will have to come from within the Islamic faith, which is a dicey proposition given it's many disparate branches. They don't believe in separation of church and state which has become a core Western value giving us a square peg/round hole kind of problem. I'm just saying a crazy person with any sort of Scripture in his hand can be a big problem. Riffing on Forrest Gump, "Crazy is as crazy does."

 

[goldfly]

I was taught growing up that Actions speak louder than words

the same leaders of said gov'ts that were at the rally:

1) King Abdullah of Jordan, which last year sentenced a Palestinian journalist to 15 years in prison with hard labour http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-...nced-in-Jordan-to-life-with-hard-labor-341596 …

2) Prime Minister of Davutoglu of Turkey, which imprisons more journalists than any other country in the world http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/dec/18/journalist-safety-turkey …

3) Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel, whose forced killed 7 journalists in Gaza last yr (second highest after Syria) http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom

4) Foreign Minister Shoukry of Egypt, which as well as AJ staff has detained journalist Shawkan for around 500 days http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2014/...wkan-describes-endless-nightmare-behind-bars/ …

5) Foreign Minister Lavrov of Russia, which last year jailed a journalist for "insulting a government servant" http://en.rsf.org/russie-journalist-arrested-after-17-09-2014,46974.html

6) Foreign Minister Lamamra of Algeria, which has detained journalist Abdessami Abdelhai for 15 months without charge http://en.rsf.org/algerie-journalist-held-without-trial-in-17-11-2014,47235.html …

7) The Foreign Minister of the UAE, which in 2013 held a journo incommunicado for a month on suspicion of MB links https://cpj.org/2013/08/uae-authorities-release-egyptian-journalist-after.php

8) Prime Minister Jomaa of Tunisia, which recently jailed blogger Yassine Ayan for 3 years for "defaming the army" http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/tunisia-blogger-jailed-military-court-should-be-released-2015-01-06

9) The PMs of Georgia and Bulgaria, both of whom have a record of attacking & beating journos http://en.rsf.org/bulgarie-police-attack-journalists-covering-26-07-2013,44980.html … http://en.rsf.org/georgie-at-least-a-dozen-journalists-27-05-2011,40365.html …

10) The Attorney General of the US, where police in Ferguson have recently detained and assaulted WashPost reporters http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ashington-post-reporter-arrested-in-ferguson/

11) Prime Minister Samaras of Greece, where riot police beat & injured two journalists at a protest in June last year http://en.rsf.org/greece-riot-po

12) Sec-Gen of NATO, who are yet to be held to account for deliberately bombing and killing 16 Serbian journos in '99 http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/no-justice-victims-nato-bombings-20090423 …

13) President Keita of Mali, where journalists are expelled for covering human rights abuses https://cpj.org/2013/05/malian-army-expels-french-journalist-from-gao.php

14) The Foreign Minister of Bahrain, 2nd biggest jailer of journos in the world per capita (they also torture them) http://cpj.org/2014/02/attack

15) Sheikh Mohamed Ben Hamad Ben Khalifa Al Thani of Qatar, which jailed a man for 15 ys for writing the Jasmine poem http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...ntence-against-poet-20131021123723850815.html

16) Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, who had several journalists jailed for insulting him in 2013 http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Palestinian-journalist-jailed-for-insulting-Abbas-308014

17) Prime Minister Cerar of Slovenia, which sentenced a blogger to six months in prison for "defamation" in 2013 http://en.rsf.org/slovenia-blogg

18) Prime Minister Enda Kenny of Ireland, where "blasphemy" is considered a criminal offense http://en.rsf.org/ireland-making-blasphemy-an-offence-takes-04-01-2010,35672.html

19) Prime Minister Kopacz of Poland, which raided a magazine to seize recordings embarrassing for the ruling party http://en.rsf.org/poland-violating-confidentiality-of-20-06-2014,46487.html

20) PM Cameron of the UK, where authorities destroyed documents obtained by The Guardian and threatened prosecution http://en.rsf.org/uk-government-

21) Saudi ambassador to France. The Saudis publicly flogged blogger @raif_badawi for "insulting Islam" on Friday http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/saudi-blogger-first-lashes-raif-badawi

Reporters Without Borders "outraged and appalled" by presence of press freedom "predators" at Paris march today http://en.rsf.org/rwb-condemns-p

just saying

 

[thethe]

Is it true that America has not sent a representative to Paris?

 

[Dalyn]

Is it true that America has not sent a representative to Paris?

I think the ambassador was there. Other than that, no one. It's disgusting either way.

 

[thethe]

I think the ambassador was there. Other than that, no one. It's disgusting either way.

What an absolute joke. America is supposed to be the leaders against terrorism. Just another example of how terrible a leader Obama is.

 

[goldfly]

oh, we lead the **** out of some terrorism

our drone program is 2nd to none in the terrorism dept

 

[thethe]

oh, we lead the **** out of some terrorism

our drone program is 2nd to none in the terrorism dept

Yeah, lets just sit around and do nothing as an alternative while these crazy people try and just govern the way we live our lives through fear.

Keep living in you fantasy world. These people need to be hunted down and killed without remorse or hesitation. This is our generations great war. We cannot falter and we cannot back down. They need to be eradicated.

 

[sturg33]

Yeah, lets just sit around and do nothing as an alternative while these crazy people try and just govern the way we live our lives through fear.

Keep living in you fantasy world. These people need to be hunted down and killed without remorse or hesitation. This is our generations great war. We cannot falter and we cannot back down. They need to be eradicated.

Holy ****

 

[thethe]

Holy ****

I'm sure the families of the people who died in France would agree with this.

 

[goldfly]

Yeah, lets just sit around and do nothing as an alternative while these crazy people try and just govern the way we live our lives through fear.

Keep living in you fantasy world. These people need to be hunted down and killed without remorse or hesitation. This is our generations great war. We cannot falter and we cannot back down. They need to be eradicated.

you think i live my life through fear?

no one holds that power over me other than myself

sorry you let others dictate your life. hope you work on that

 

[goldfly]

I'm sure the families of the people who died in France would agree with this.

if there is anything i know

it is you shouldn't speak for anyone in Europe

much less anyone else

 

[thethe]

you think i live my life through fear?

no one holds that power over me other than myself

sorry you let others dictate your life. hope you work on that

I live my life just fine. I said their attempts are to do this. I'm sure millions of Muslim women around the world live their lives in fear.

 

[goldfly]

I live my life just fine. I said their attempts are to do this. I'm sure millions of Muslim women around the world live their lives in fear.

that isn't what you said at all

but nice to change your statement to try to get it to work for you

 

[thethe]

that isn't what you said at all

but nice to change your statement to try to get it to work for you

Didn't change anything since everything is posted here for review.

 

[goldfly]

you did change it

you went from this:

Yeah, lets just sit around and do nothing as an alternative while these crazy people try and just govern the way we live our lives through fear.

Keep living in you fantasy world. These people need to be hunted down and killed without remorse or hesitation. This is our generations great war. We cannot falter and we cannot back down. They need to be eradicated.

to this:

I live my life just fine. I said their attempts are to do this. I'm sure millions of Muslim women around the world live their lives in fear.

 

[thethe]

And....?

 

[The Tariff King]

Love that those running for president on the right are using this event to criticize for not sending a high profile person as a "symbolic" gesture. These symbolic gestures are more annoying than political correctness.