Game of Thrones

thethe said:
Why did Arya even go into that room in the first place? The episode was just weird and didnt flow well at all.
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Which room? She was running away from the Wights when they overran the walls. She went to go hide into the library and found out there were wights in there just lurking. When she escaped that room (which was to show her stealth and quiet abilities) she was running in the hallway for dear life. Then she ran into Beric and Hound, and all 3 kept running until they got to the room Melissandre was in.
 
thethe said:
She slowly crept into the library. If she was being chased I'm not sure from what direction it was from.
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She wasn't being chased up to that point. When Hound is having PTSD and Beric is trying to get him to fight again, he points to Arya on the roof of one of the huts next to the wall. Wights were jumping over and landing into the courtyard, but Arya ran into the tunnel by herself (and no wights appeared to be following her). She snuck into the library to make sure the wights hadn't climbed into those windows or overrun other walls and made it into the rooms of the castle.
 
I suppose...there had to be a better room to go and hide in buy the whole castle was chaos
 
It was kind of a let down. It’s one of the only shows that wasn’t afraid to take chances and gambles to kill off the heroes and good guys. That’s one of the things that made the show so great. You didn’t know what was going to happen to the characters we liked. For the past few weeks EVERYONE was talking about and predicting who they think would make it out of the big battle and who would perish. Then all of a sudden Games of Thrones became just like every other tv show and movie where the outnumbered and outgunned good guys seemingly beat the odds and they all pull through.
 
I might have to watch this show. I read the two books a long time ago, like Anthony, Eddings, Brooks, Feist and I liked them, Martin has a different style but good books. But when fans said that it was epic last night, I will reconsider.

I got a lot of seasons to catch up but I want to start from the beginning.
 
I don’t mind Arya killing the Night King, it kind of makes sense in a way if you consider them both gods of death, or to represent death. I just wasn’t much of a fan of how it happened. It was way too easy. That seems to be a recurring issue with many film/tv plots nowadays in that they build up the big bad so much that they write themselves into a corner. There was so much build up over seven seasons in regards to TNK at the WW and the episode was pretty much perfect up until that point, to end it like that was somewhat anti-climactic.
 
CyYoung31 said:
I don’t mind Arya killing the Night King, it kind of makes sense in a way if you consider them both gods of death, or to represent death. I just wasn’t much of a fan of how it happened. It was way too easy. That seems to be a recurring issue with many film/tv plots nowadays in that they build up the big bad so much that they write themselves into a corner. There was so much build up over seven seasons in regards to TNK at the WW and the episode was pretty much perfect up until that point, to end it like that was somewhat anti-climactic.
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Endgame type?
 
Krgrecw said:
It was kind of a let down. It’s one of the only shows that wasn’t afraid to take chances and gambles to kill off the heroes and good guys. That’s one of the things that made the show so great. You didn’t know what was going to happen to the characters we liked. For the past few weeks EVERYONE was talking about and predicting who they think would make it out of the big battle and who would perish. Then all of a sudden Games of Thrones became just like every other tv show and movie where the outnumbered and outgunned good guys seemingly beat the odds and they all pull through.
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I mean even most of Season 7... when you look at it none of the heroes or mains died either except Littlefinger.

In Beyond the Wall when Jon and his group of bandits went to retrieve a white walker, there should have been no way they survived on that frozen lake being as outnumbered as they were. Tormund survived. Hound. Beric. Jon survived freezing water. Gendry ran how many miles that quick. Dany flew in quickly etc.
 
Individual-1 said:
I mean even most of Season 7... when you look at it none of the heroes or mains died either except Littlefinger.

In Beyond the Wall when Jon and his group of bandits went to retrieve a white walker, there should have been no way they survived on that frozen lake being as outnumbered as they were. Tormund survived. Hound. Beric. Jon survived freezing water. Gendry ran how many miles that quick. Dany flew in quickly etc.
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Yeah, they’ve written more for fan service and effect than logic and depth since they’ve surpassed the books.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Yeah, they’ve written more for fan service and effect than logic and depth since they’ve surpassed the books.
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I’d be anxious to see if Martin would had killed off some main characters since he had no problem with doing it in the books.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Yeah, they’ve written more for fan service and effect than logic and depth since they’ve surpassed the books.
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Unpopular opinion, but I am fine with this approach.

D&D are much better off telling the best story that they can tell while delivering a great spectacle. I wasn’t a fan of Season 7 (the plotting was quite frankly horrible), but I think they have otherwise done a terrific job steering the ship both with and post book material. The last thing we need is for those two to try a poor imitation of GRRM.

For those asking for an expanded mythology and sprawling plot, I am optimistic that George will deliver that version of the story.
 
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Krgrecw said:
I’d be anxious to see if Martin would had killed off some main characters since he had no problem with doing it in the books.
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George killed main characters off with the knowledge that he had thousands of pages to introduce new characters and develop others. If you read a Dance of Dragons (his last novel), George doesn’t kill anyone of real consequence (unless Jon actually stays dead which would be a SHOCKER).

Meanwhile, it’s not like the show hasn’t bloodied itself in the post Martin era. The Tyrell’s, The High Sparrow, Sand Snakes, Hodor, Cold Hands etc, etc. have all been killed off by the show.

Now, if your point was directed at a main cast member like Tyrion, Sansa, Dany, etc. then I guess my counter would be George has confirmed that the show will have the same ending as his books so I would be surprised if there is any major difference there.
 
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chop2chip said:
George killed main characters off with the knowledge that he had thousands of pages to introduce new characters and develop other characters. If you read a Dance of Dragons, George doesn’t kill anyone of consequence (unless Jon actually stays dead).

Meanwhile, it’s not like the show hasn’t bloodied itself in the post Martin era. The Tyrell’s, The High Sparrow, Sand Snakes, Hodor, Cold Hands etc, etc. have all been killed off by the show.

Now, if your point was directed at a main cast member like Tyrion, Sansa, Dany, etc. then I guess my counter would be George has confirmed that the show will have the same ending as his books so I would be surprised if there is any major difference there.
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I think most of those still standing are completing the arc that began with the start of the series and need to be there. Unlike the books that can become extremely arcane, it seems that in the series all of the deaths have had meaning either in the moment or in laying the groundwork for the motivation of other characters. I see the remaining main characters as archetypes.
 
50PoundHead said:
I think most of those still standing are completing the arc that began with the start of the series and need to be there. Unlike the books that can become extremely arcane, it seems that in the series all of the deaths have had meaning either in the moment or in laying the groundwork for the motivation of other characters. I see the remaining main characters as archetypes.
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Exactly. George killed his characters to grow other characters. Ned had to die to set Arya off on her journey to become a faceless man. Oberyn died so that Tyrion would be condemned which resulted in he killing Tywin and setting sail to Essos. The Red Wedding, while emotional, ultimately involved side characters who never truly mattered to the end game (plus whatever role LSH has to play). At this point if D&D kill Tyrion in the crypts, what does that accomplish? All it does is abruptly end his arc while that character is at its lowest moment. I don’t see how it catalyzes other characters to develop with so little time. At this point in the story, the major deaths (e.g., not Edd) that occur have to occur after a characters arc has been completed or that character has no further role to play. Why fans desire death for the illusion of consequence astounds me..

With that said, I do not see what purpose Tormund and Grey Worm serve at this point (other than being the representative face of their faction), so sure they could have died this past episode. But to me that only serves the purpose of satisfying the bloodlust of fans and ultimately doesn’t quite meaningfully progress the story.

I’m a huge fan of the book series and a optimist that GRRM will finish his life’s work. I know many book readers haven’t been satisfied with D&D, but to me the show’s purpose is to tell the story of Game of Thrones, not A Song of Ice and Fire. Maybe I’m oversimplifying the criticism, but it seems most fans are disappointed because they truly believe this is the only ending will ever get and if that’s the case then I understand why this is so upsetting.
 
Because Tormund is the best character in the show. Hopefully he gets a spin off like Joey from Friends.

Can’t kill him off.
 
chop2chip said:
Exactly. George killed his characters to grow other characters. Ned had to die to set Arya off on her journey to become a faceless man. Oberyn died so that Tyrion would be condemned which resulted in he killing Tywin and setting sail to Essos. The Red Wedding, while emotional, ultimately involved side characters who never truly mattered to the end game (plus whatever role LSH has to play). At this point if D&D kill Tyrion in the crypts, what does that accomplish? All it does is abruptly end his arc while that character is at its lowest moment. I don’t see how it catalyzes other characters to develop with so little time. At this point in the story, the major deaths (e.g., not Edd) that occur have to occur after a characters arc has been completed or that character has no further role to play. Why fans desire death for the illusion of consequence astounds me..

With that said, I do not see what purpose Tormund and Grey Worm serve at this point (other than being the representative face of their faction), so sure they could have died this past episode. But to me that only serves the purpose of satisfying the bloodlust of fans and ultimately doesn’t quite meaningfully progress the story.

I’m a huge fan of the book series and a optimist that GRRM will finish his life’s work. I know many book readers haven’t been satisfied with D&D, but to me the show’s purpose is to tell the story of Game of Thrones, not A Song of Ice and Fire. Maybe I’m oversimplifying the criticism, but it seems most fans are disappointed because they truly believe this is the only ending will ever get and if that’s the case then I understand why this is so upsetting.
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I must have been totally asleep at the wheel, but Melisandre was obviously the personification of the "fire" angle in the Song of Ice and Fire dichotomy. Funny (at least to me), how Martin's world of various shades of gray still stands between that Manichean dichotomy.

The Tyrion character has always been interesting to me, but, like Sam, he showed his true colors in the latest episode. There are people that fight small battles with their mouths and people that put themselves at risk in large battles. At least that's what I gleaned.

I didn't read past A Feast for Crows (I got carpal tunnel from having to page through the previous books to see where a new major character had first been introduced), but does Grey Worm play as large role moving forward as he has on the series? In another Khaleesi-related matter, is Jorah Mormont rehabilitated in the books to the extent he was in the series? I was glad to see him go, but I didn't see his heroism meaning as much as Theon's. When I left off in the books, Selmy had chased Mormont off.
 
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