GDT 5/21 vs Giants

I am really surprised more of you aren’t yelling about lineup construction. We are scoring less because our power hitters are hitting solo shots. I know Acuna is “exciting” leading off. But I am tired of score 3 or fewer runs and having to depend on our pen so much.

Also thin Johan needs a spell in AAA to get right. Swap him and Duvall and see if his bat can get going with regular playing time. That is another area that snit has dropped the ball. He is not subbing guys like he should. Ol’ sharpie snit doin his thang real good.
 
msstate7 said:
3 lefties, right? New guy is in there isn't he?
Click to expand...

Newk and Blevins are lefties. Jackson, Webb, Winkler, Tomlin, Touki and Swarzak are righties.

When you face a team like the Giants who can stack their lineup with lefty hitters, it presents a challenge. But Snit needs to adapt and push the envelope a bit with Newk. I understand the desire to put him in situations where he can succeed and build up his comfort level as a reliever. But at some point we need to find out how he can do on consecutive days pitching and coming in during the middle of an inning with runners on base.

I would also note that we have 4 righties in the starting rotation. The more righties you have in the rotation, the more often other teams will stack their lineups with lefty hitters and the greater the need for a third and fourth lefty in the pen. Hopefully, Minter is back soon and that will improve the situation. I would also consider bringing up Dayton and designating Swarzak for assignment.
 
Last edited:
"I am really surprised more of you aren’t yelling about lineup construction."

As I said when starting this GDT that there are at least 2 hitters in the wrong spots in the line up. It's not only lack of dominate closer, but more on Snit and his use, rather mis-use, of hitters in line up. It also calls for a look at his selection of relievers at any given time.

Blaming relievers for loosing is a valid reason, but blaming their use in spots where a better option is available is on Snit. He continually baffles fans with his decisions on lineup and pitcher selection.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Pen is fine.
Click to expand...

1) Quite a few things have gone wrong. Injuries to Viz and O'Day. Implosions by Sam Freeman, Biddle, Venters and Minter, which has led to a shortage of lefties in the pen.

2) Jackson and Webb have been pleasant surprises. Newk and Touki give signs of making successful transitions to the pen.

3) Even though 2) mitigates 1), an upgrade or two would be a good idea. I would trade for Ian Kennedy and Will Smith. But there are other ways to accomplish an upgrade.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Also thin Johan needs a spell in AAA to get right. Swap him and Duvall and see if his bat can get going with regular playing time. That is another area that snit has dropped the ball. He is not subbing guys like he should. Ol’ sharpie snit doin his thang real good.
Click to expand...

I think when Ender returns from the IL that one of Ender or Camargo will be traded, or Camargo will be sent down. I don't see any other realistic options with how well Riley is hitting. I guess Joyce could be cut, but he's a much better bench bat than Camargo is right now.
 
salmagundy said:
"I am really surprised more of you aren’t yelling about lineup construction."

As I said when starting this GDT that there are at least 2 hitters in the wrong spots in the line up. It's not only lack of dominate closer, but more on Snit and his use, rather mis-use, of hitters in line up. It also calls for a look at his selection of relievers at any given time.

Blaming relievers for loosing is a valid reason, but blaming their use in spots where a better option is available is on Snit. He continually baffles fans with his decisions on lineup and pitcher selection.
Click to expand...

Yes we can blame Jackson. But fat panda was very lucky. However that should have been the night for Jackson. Newk would have held the runner on first better and had the platoon advantage. The problem is snit thinks his closet has to work the 9th instead of making everyone a closer and utilizing guys where they can succeed
 
Jaw said:
I think when Ender returns from the IL that one of Ender or Camargo will be traded, or Camargo will be sent down. I don't see any other realistic options with how well Riley is hitting. I guess Joyce could be cut, but he's a much better bench bat than Camargo is right now.
Click to expand...

Going with 7 in the pen is an option. Depends on how the staff as a whole is pitching. But it is viable considering how many multi-inning relievers we have: Newk, Touki, Tomlin. Jackson has pitched multiple innings. I think Webb has too.

Also someone will get hurt. So the return of Ender is not really a problem. I agree that Riley is not going to get sent down to AAA. I would keep Joyce.
 
Last edited:
nsacpi said:
Going with 7 in the pen is an option. Depends on how the staff as a whole is pitching. But it is viable considering how many multi-inning relievers we have: Newk, Touki, Tomlin. Jackson has pitched multiple innings. I think Webb has too.

Also someone will get hurt. So the return of Ender is not really a problem. I agree that Riley is not going to get send down to AAA.
Click to expand...

I am sorry, but how would a deeper bench benefit this team. Snit doesn’t know how to deploy the bench right now. And I am sure not going to let him manage a shorter pen. You are now talking about double switches and pitchers going longer per game. No way I trust twit with that kind of stuff.
 
nsacpi said:
Going with 7 in the pen is an option. Depends on how the staff as a whole is pitching. But it is viable considering how many multi-inning relievers we have: Newk, Touki, Tomlin. Jackson has pitched multiple innings. I think Webb has too.

Also someone will get hurt. So the return of Ender is not really a problem. I agree that Riley is not going to get send down to AAA. I would keep Joyce.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that a 7 man pen should be an option. I'm just not confident it will be, given the amount of young pitching, the Jekyll and Hyde bullpen performances, and the Snitker.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Yes we can blame Jackson. But fat panda was very lucky. However that should have been the night for Jackson. Newk would have held the runner on first better and had the platoon advantage. The problem is snit thinks his closet has to work the 9th instead of making everyone a closer and utilizing guys where they can succeed
Click to expand...

I think it is more his reluctance to bring in Newk on consecutive days and also in the middle of an inning with runners on. Newk might still need a little more time to warm up than your typical reliever. But I think we need to find out how he can do in those situations.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I am sorry, but how would a deeper bench benefit this team. Snit doesn’t know how to deploy the bench right now. And I am sure not going to let him manage a shorter pen. You are now talking about double switches and pitchers going longer per game. No way I trust twit with that kind of stuff.
Click to expand...

Look at last night's game. The only unused position player was Flowers. But we had four relievers in the pen who were not used. Most teams nowadays carry 8 relievers. But I don't think it is a slam dunk that this is always the best way to go. I'm not advocating 7 relievers for the rest of the season. But for a couple weeks it might make sense.
 
salmagundy said:
Didn't stay up for the end of the game. Just watched the 8th and 9th innings. Another blown save for Jackson. That makes 13 saves in 21 chances so far this season. 8 losses from relievers!! I don't like loosing, especially when winning entering the 9th.


Just a question for all of the Kimbrel nay voters. Do you enjoy watching the Braves lose games in the 9th inning because they don't have a "closer"? And really haven't had one who instills confidence for several years. Jackson has tried very hard but he is not a "dominate" closer.
Click to expand...

Preach the numbers all the defenders of the pen want, then remember this...

"The Braves still believe that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer’s role. He, along with Josh Tomlin, are Atlanta’s only relievers who were on the Opening Day roster. Since then, injuries and ineffectiveness have forced the Braves to use 18 relievers, this year’s third-highest total behind Baltimore (23) and Seattle (22)."

Jackson was picked up because Texas (of all teams) decided he wasn't worth keeping - he's had the best stretch of his career (SSS), and is still consistently blowing leads. More often than not, when he protects one he's been fairly lucky. Luck is fun while it lasts, but if you're more numbers-driven you're usually screaming about sample sizes and how expecting hot streaks and luck to continue is a pretty bad idea.
 
Last edited:
nsacpi said:
Look at last night's game. The only unused position player was Flowers. But we had four relievers in the pen who were not used. Most teams nowadays carry 8 relievers. But I don't think it is a slam dunk that this is always the best way to go. I'm not advocating 7 relievers for the rest of the season. But for a couple weeks it might make sense.
Click to expand...

You mean where he hit Joyce and then put clutch in the field.
 
clvclv said:
Preach the numbers all the defenders of the pen want, then remember this...

"The Braves still believe that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer’s role. He, along with Josh Tomlin, are Atlanta’s only relievers who were on the Opening Day roster. Since then, injuries and ineffectiveness have forced the Braves to use 18 relievers, this year’s third-highest total behind Baltimore (23) and Seattle (22)."

Jackson was picked up because Texas (of all teams) decided he wasn't worth keeping - he's had the best stretch of his career (SSS), and is still consistently blowing leads. More often than not, when he protects one he's been fairly lucky. Luck is fun while it lasts, but if you're more numbers-driven you're usually screaming about sample sizes and how expecting hot streaks and luck to continue is a pretty bad idea.
Click to expand...

So Kimbrel is unemployed because everyone wants him?
 
clvclv said:
Preach the numbers all the defenders of the pen want, then remember this...

"The Braves still believe that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer’s role. He, along with Josh Tomlin, are Atlanta’s only relievers who were on the Opening Day roster. Since then, injuries and ineffectiveness have forced the Braves to use 18 relievers, this year’s third-highest total behind Baltimore (23) and Seattle (22)."

Jackson was picked up because Texas (of all teams) decided he wasn't worth keeping - he's had the best stretch of his career (SSS), and is still consistently blowing leads. More often than not, when he protects one he's been fairly lucky. Luck is fun while it lasts, but if you're more numbers-driven you're usually screaming about sample sizes and how expecting hot streaks and luck to continue is a pretty bad idea.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone thinks we should stand pat with the pen. An upgrade or two is needed.
 
Braves let three runners get to second in the ninth (defensive indifference and two stolen bases). I don’t think Luke threw over to first at all last night. They could have walked Panik to pitch to Vogt as well. Ball game.
 
nsacpi said:
I don't think anyone thinks we should stand pat with the pen. An upgrade or two is needed.
Click to expand...

No doubt, but if continuing to read that "The Braves still BELIEVE that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer's role." doesn't make fans feel any better, how discouraging do you think it is to the guys in the clubhouse when they're doing enough to win these games and you keep telling everyone you've got plenty of money to fix this - but don't?

They're going to say the right things publicly because they're professionals, but I seriously doubt many of them feel particularly confident about anything short of a HUGE lead at this point.
 
clvclv said:
No doubt, but if continuing to read that "The Braves still BELIEVE that Jackson can gain comfort in the closer's role." doesn't make fans feel any better, how discouraging do you think it is to the guys in the clubhouse when they're doing enough to win these games and you keep telling everyone you've got plenty of money to fix this - but don't?

They're going to say the right things publicly because they're professionals, but I seriously doubt many of them feel particularly confident about anything short of a HUGE lead at this point.
Click to expand...

luke jackson has been good this year.
the error last night was leaving him to face a lefty. he shouldn't be treated as a closer who can get everyone out; he should still be situational.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top