GDT 7/25/21: Braves @ Phillies - Must Win

Enscheff said:
Yup, and it has declined since. What people want Touki to be, what he actually is, and what he is likely to become are very different things. It’s a bit like everyone that had a boner for Newk about 3 years longer than was warranted.
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I can speak for me only and I think he can be what he's shown. Not Bob Gibson and not Jr Richard. I do think he's perhaps in the camp that needs to learn how to PITCH. I remember your post on his stuff and I don't think it's backed up enough to invoke Julio Teherans name. He was probably sitting 93 this last start..above average, but 96 a couple of times, but that curveball is still a weapon and his sinker better.

So the realist in me says if he can be a 4 I'm OK with that. I dream of more but as a few have stated, it remains to be seen.
 
thewupk said:
Touki has great stuff. But players usually don't learn command out of nowhere. And Anderson's "control issues" have resulted in 3.72 BB/9 in 128 big league innings. Not great but not horrible. Touki has real control issues. 5.75 BB/9 in 101 big league innings. That's a big difference and is what's going to limit Touki. I have doubts he can keep it under 4 BB/9 as a starter
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To be fair, Touki hasn't ever had a stretch like this at any level just like Ynoa hadn't until a few months ago. Not everything follows the script the metrics lay out, and this is probably more true of pitching than anything in the game.

The greatest Pitchers the game has seen have always said they struggled along just like everyone else that's ever pitched until that one thing clicked. I'm certainly still skeptical - you'd be crazy if you weren't - but I wouldn't be in such a hurry to write this off. This is the Pitcher everyone's always said he "could be". One of the things we heard from Muller is a change in approach from "don't walk people" to "just throw strikes". For guys with that kind of talent and stuff, it's impossible to say that it might be that simple if they see good results from that for a string of starts and commit to it.

He was unfazed when he gave up the bomb to Torreyes - just give me another ball and let me get back to work. We haven't seen that from a lot of Pitchers here in some time, Morton and Fried included.
 
Deester11 said:
I can speak for me only and I think he can be what he's shown. Not Bob Gibson and not Jr Richard. I do think he's perhaps in the camp that needs to learn how to PITCH. I remember your post on his stuff and I don't think it's backed up enough to invoke Julio Teherans name. He was probably sitting 93 this last start..above average, but 96 a couple of times, but that curveball is still a weapon and his sinker better.

So the realist in me says if he can be a 4 I'm OK with that. I dream of more but as a few have stated, it remains to be seen.
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The one thing mentioned over the radio that stood out to me as "clicking" maybe was throwing that sinker (or splitter) more and its been useful.
 
Southcack77 said:
Wright and Touki are the kind of guys that other orgs figure out how to fix.

Maybe Atlanta is getting better at that.
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If this season finishes with touki and ynoa still looking like they've turned the corner, I'll feel much better about our pitching development
 
msstate7 said:
If this season finishes with touki and ynoa still looking like they've turned the corner, I'll feel much better about our pitching development
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Not that the Braves owe us a philosophy breakdown but it would be nice to know if there is a general thought on making pitchers either throw more strikes (I know...easier said than done) or lean on a pitch to get their better pitches to play in the majors.

Whatever it is, Touki looks more confident. His pitches are still moving all over the place..enough to where if they look like a strike he can have success. He got Hoskins I think with pitches that were two feet off the plate..they swept that far away from him.
 
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