GDT 8/14/2013: Phillies @ Braves

Changing your swing to try to hit dinky groundballs in an effort to avoid striking out is a really bad idea. I'd much rather the hitter swing hard, and hit for power when he makes contact.

Cal Ripken once said his biggest regret was always trying to avoid striking out. He said hitting dinky groundballs to second base did nothing for him or his team.
 
Changing your swing to try to hit dinky groundballs in an effort to avoid striking out is a really bad idea. I'd much rather the hitter swing hard, and hit for power when he makes contact.

Cal Ripken once said his biggest regret was always trying to avoid striking out. He said hitting dinky groundballs to second base did nothing for him or his team.

Thats fine when you are still in your prime but I think when your bat starts to slow down as you age you need to change your approach in certain situations.
 
He would get exposed.

..again.

He's a very good 4th OFer. Not a starter.

That is if you ignore his completely different approach at the plate... Doing so would be assuming he is the exact same player he was in Houston, which clearly is not the case.
 
That is if you ignore his completely different approach at the plate... Doing so would be assuming he is the exact same player he was in Houston, which clearly is not the case.

Schafer has pretty much the same K rate, BB rate, LD rate, GB rate, and FB as he ever has. Wanna know why Schafer is better this year than in the past? First is a massively inflated BABIP that isn't really sustainable, though he should be a high BABIP guy because of his speed. Second is only 11% of his PA are against LHP. Compare that to the 31% that Freeman has faced. He's a good bench player who can hit righties well but sucks against lefties. If we were to take the same number of PA but slide it so that he's around 31% against LHP his OBP alone would slip about 40 points. Of course there's a sampling issue. But the point is still the same. Schafer succeeds because he doesn't face a lot of lefties. Most starting position players face 30-40% lefties.
 
Schafer has pretty much the same K rate, BB rate, LD rate, GB rate, and FB as he ever has. Wanna know why Schafer is better this year than in the past? First is a massively inflated BABIP that isn't really sustainable, though he should be a high BABIP guy because of his speed. Second is only 11% of his PA are against LHP. Compare that to the 31% that Freeman has faced. He's a good bench player who can hit righties well but sucks against lefties. If we were to take the same number of PA but slide it so that he's around 31% against LHP his OBP alone would slip about 40 points. Of course there's a sampling issue. But the point is still the same. Schafer succeeds because he doesn't face a lot of lefties. Most starting position players face 30-40% lefties.

Bingo.
 
Changing your swing to try to hit dinky groundballs in an effort to avoid striking out is a really bad idea. I'd much rather the hitter swing hard, and hit for power when he makes contact.
For the record I'm against dinky groundballs.
 
zbhargrove, quiet night in Fargo? Nice flurry.

Some decry attention to situational baseball, but I view the game similarly to an investment portfolio. The long run is composed of a set of short runs (some of them very short runs) and failure in short runs is likely to lead to underperformance in the long run. There are various ways to measure performance and I think the deep stats movement has helped us determine values that were previously ignored, but in the process of questioning the previously held conventional wisdom, I think the movement has sometimes thrown the baby out with the bath water.

Example: Runner on third, one out, hitter strikes out, and next batter makes an out and runner left stranded. Next time up the guy who struck out hits a 900 foot HR. Stat movement says, "a run is a run" and in the long run, the batter produced a run so it's really no big deal that he didn't hit a grounder to second to drive in the guy from third in his previous at-bat because the net effect is the same. I get that, but the point is the team could have scored two runs with modest execution (the counter argument, of course, is that the situation that ended in a strike out could have ended in a home run, which would have generated two runs and I'm not going to dismiss that except to say that home runs are rarer than ground outs). Granted the value and qualities of each player vary greatly and performance in given situations will also likewise vary greatly. It's hard to hang a picture with only a screwdriver, but that doesn't mean a screwdriver isn't a valuable tool. The valuable qualities in some players won't lend themselves to optimum performance in every situation, hence the failure of the batter in the previous example has to be balanced against his later success. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be some expectation of better performance in those situations.

So my base argument is that the long run is comprised of a collection of short runs and performance in all of these short runs should be measured. Some of it will end up not mattering that much because the result of the game is finite and that is how the team's performance is measured. I agree that players aren't perfect and shouldn't be expected to play against their strengths and fans shouldn't expect Uggla to choke up and go the other way. That's not his game. But there isn't a unified field theory of baseball (as much as the deep stats movement seems to contend that there is) because there is simply too much variance in the qualities of players, the nature of the confrontation between pitcher and hitter, and the situation within that confrontation takes place. That doesn't mean you bring in Varvaro with the bases loaded to close out Game 7 of the World Series or send Pastornicky to the plate expecting to give the fans in the left field stands a souvenir. Each season, each game, each at-bat, and each pitch matter lead to a measurement and it's important to treat them as such. Some more than others (far more in some instances), obviously, but that doesn't mean each shouldn't be noted.

Lol... Sorry. I apologize. I had quite a few drinks watching the game with friends last night. An alcohol filled night is rare for me these days but it was fun, nonetheless. Still, Uggla sucks. I hope LASIK works but I have my doubts that's his real issue.
 
That is if you ignore his completely different approach at the plate... Doing so would be assuming he is the exact same player he was in Houston, which clearly is not the case.

How many different times have we heard Schafer has a completely different approach now?
 
Changing your swing to try to hit dinky groundballs in an effort to avoid striking out is a really bad idea. I'd much rather the hitter swing hard, and hit for power when he makes contact.

Cal Ripken once said his biggest regret was always trying to avoid striking out. He said hitting dinky groundballs to second base did nothing for him or his team.

In general you are probably right. But, some guys have the skills to alter their swing to put the ball in play and get runners in. Freddie Freeman (at least this year) seems to be a guy that can shorten his swing and put the ball in play with runners on. Supported by how well he's done in RBI opportunities. With no runners on, there really arent' many instances where the goal should be just put the bat on the ball (which is what Cal could be referring to)

I think the correct statement is not asking guys that can't do it to do it. Some guys can. Guys like BeeJ and Uggla cannot.
 
No problem from me my fellow Midwesterner. I thought you made some great points. It wasn't that big a leap for me to get off the Uggla train because I was never really on it. His career speaks for itself. He's a three-outcome guy and that has been in vogue for a few years. I guess my point is, while it's nice to have one or two of those guys in the line-up, I don't think a whole platoon of them will do very well. Eye problems or no eye problems, Uggla has been feast or famine since becoming a Brave and this year rivals the plague against the Israelites in terms of famine.

PS--Schafer seems to have shortened up a bit, which should be a help to him, but he's a 4th OF and could be a pretty good one. He's a "little things" guy and those guys can be helpful on the bench (or surrounded by a bunch of studs if on a team where they are asked to start). zito's right in that we all need to look at the splits.
 
Im shocked and appalled that since Dan went to have eye surgery we have seen a recession of Uggla Owl Eyes jokes. Poor form gents...

Dan Owlgla Will Return In ...

vPt0z0o.jpg
 
Batting average doesn't matter. His obp is lower than i'd like, and thats disappointing, but batting average is archaic. I'm more concerned over whether or not he eats too much garlic than I am with his batting average. He strikes out too much, and his obp is lower than normal for him, but batting average just takes up a spot on his baseball card at this point. We as a people have WAY more accurate measure of his productivity than batting average. Now, you could say that those way more accurate measures are also lacking, and i'd agree with you, but don't tell me about batting average. You're smarter than that.

OK baseball math genius, since BA doesn't matter and only OBP does...

Which player do take?

A: .200 BA, .350 OBA

B: .300 BA, .350 OBA

The correct answer is you take the higher OPS (actually wOBA). A higher BA typically leads to a higher OBP and a higher SLG.

Saying BA doesn't matter is like saying hits don't matter because they are pretty much the same as a walk. While that is true over an extremely large sample, nobody has ever scored from 2nd when a batter walked. Eventually, someone has to drive in all the guys that walked. There is a reason teams intentionally walk more dangerous hitters to get to less dangerous hitters, and that reason isn't because it make them lose ballgames. It's because a walk does less damage than the more dangerous hitter could potentially do if allowed to swing.

Furthermore, all walks are not created equally, and are not all equal in value. A walk to Barry Bonds when he was a station to station base clogger was far less valuable than a walk to Rickey Henderson in his prime when a walk often times meant there was a man in scoring position 3 pitches later. Today, a walk to Mac is less valuable than a walk to Heyward.

Just another shortcoming of the extreme sabermatric point of view, perpetuated by folks that have never played ball at any level higher than little league.
 
OK baseball math genius, since BA doesn't matter and only OBP does...

Which player do take?

A: .200 BA, .350 OBP
B: .300 BA, .350 OBP

The correct answer is you take the higher OPS. A higher BA typically leads to a higher OBP and a higher SLG.

Saying BA doesn't matter is like saying hits don't matter because they are pretty much the same as a walk. While that is true over an extremely large sample, nobody has ever scored from 2nd when a batter walked. Eventually, someone has to drive in all the guys that walked.

Just another shortcoming of the extreme sabermatric point of view, perpetuated by folks that have never played ball at any level higher than little league.
Totally agree. Especially the last sentence.
 
OK baseball math genius, since BA doesn't matter and only OBP does...

Which player do take?

A: .200 BA, .350 OBP
B: .300 BA, .350 OBP

The correct answer is you take the higher OPS (actually wOBP). A higher BA typically leads to a higher OBP and a higher SLG.

Saying BA doesn't matter is like saying hits don't matter because they are pretty much the same as a walk. While that is true over an extremely large sample, nobody has ever scored from 2nd when a batter walked. Eventually, someone has to drive in all the guys that walked.

Just another shortcoming of the extreme sabermatric point of view, perpetuated by folks that have never played ball at any level higher than little league.

Yet, in your condescending tone in which you believe you know everything, you defend the extreme sabermetric point of view in other thread (about Heyward). Interesting.
 
Yet, in your condescending tone in which you believe you know everything, you defend the extreme sabermetric point of view in other thread (about Heyward). Interesting.

I did not defend the extreme view. I said I "could see how" he has maybe saved that many runs in response to someone saying they "couldn't see how" he saved that many runs.

Trying to quantify defensive contributions is not the same thing as saying "all that matters is OBP". I apologize if you are unable to make such distinctions.
 
"What that value exactly is I have no idea, but I trust the guys who came up with that formula know a lot more than some poster on an internet forum who "thinks" he knows something."

So you trust the stathead that came up with WAR. But, the statheads with opinion on OBP....not so much.

Makes a lot of sense.
 
That is if you ignore his completely different approach at the plate... Doing so would be assuming he is the exact same player he was in Houston, which clearly is not the case.

He would be exposed if he played 150+ games.

Realllly good fourth outfielder but as a starter, it wouldn't be good.
 
Changing your swing to try to hit dinky groundballs in an effort to avoid striking out is a really bad idea. I'd much rather the hitter swing hard, and hit for power when he makes contact.

Cal Ripken once said his biggest regret was always trying to avoid striking out. He said hitting dinky groundballs to second base did nothing for him or his team.

A lot depends on who the player is. I don't know if Ripken would re-phrase this, but if a runner is on third with less than two outs, grippin' and rippin' might leave that guy standing and the inning, score, and other factors might call for trying to get the guy in. There's never a guarantee of success. If it's early and the stakes are low, by all means, swing your heart out.

But it is still going to depend on the hitter's abilities. Ripken was a good hitter and probably had a choice in approaches. I hate to keep bringing up Uggla, but he's a good example of someone who would never be called "Mr. Bat Control" and asking him to change his approach probably isn't going to work.
 
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