GDT: Braves @ Dodgers (NLDS Game 4, October 7, 2013)

Even still, the real culprit here is the pitching staff. It was just a choke job of biblical proportions. Never seen anything like it really.
 
Dalyn said:
Kimbrel wanted the ball for two. He had successfully done it before. And evidently he asked for it. He is also the best pitcher on the team. You give him the ball. No one can defend that move.
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Still disagree. Every manager in the playoffs goes with their set up man in the 8th then their closer in the 9th.

It's really easy to criticize in hindsight because it didn't work out. It's not like Carpenter was a scrub reliever. He'd posted dominant numbers all year. You dance with what got you there. Our bullpen has saved us so many games this year and kept us in so many games. Carpenter wanted the ball too, it's not like Gonzalez forced it upon him.
 
David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves10m
#Braves CJohnson: “Carpenter’s our guy.Been our guy for a while in the 8th inn. You go to battle w/ your guys. We wouldn’t have changed it."

I get the whole thing that Kimbrel is ultra competitive and he wanted the ball. This doesn't mean he doesn't respect Fredi, it just means he's frustrated he didn't get to pitch. Doesn't mean it was the wrong move to bring in Carpenter. Some of you are going overboard with the players don't respect Fredi or they don't like him.
 
Kimbrel pitched 2+ innings 25 times in 2 1/2 seasons in the minors, with 6 of those being longer than 2 innings (longest was 3 innings, twice).
 
I think the Dodgers have a helluva lineup.

The Braves came into tonight decided not to let Rameriz or gonzalez be them. Crawford and Uribe. don't forget while panning Fredi and Carpenter -- Jose Uribe has 2 WS rings. With one I'd say ah he got lucky. But he was an integral part of two championships now he hits 6 behind Puig .

It's not like Keith Lockhart hit that HR
 
KeithLockhart said:
David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves10m
#Braves CJohnson: “Carpenter’s our guy.Been our guy for a while in the 8th inn. You go to battle w/ your guys. We wouldn’t have changed it."

I get the whole thing that Kimbrel is ultra competitive and he wanted the ball. This doesn't mean he doesn't respect Fredi, it just means he's frustrated he didn't get to pitch. Doesn't mean it was the wrong move to bring in Carpenter. Some of you are going overboard with the players don't respect Fredi or they don't like him.
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The only reason people are up in arms about it is because it didn't work. Before the game everyone was ready to crucify Fredi for starting Garcia but since that worked out so well nobody is saying much about that. Everyone just wants to blame Fredi for the Braves losing instead of the players for choking in the playoffs once again.
 
I think in situations like last night you have to go down with your best. One run game with the best closer in baseball ready to go two innings and a day of rest the next day. I guess you can't fault Fredi for the strategy, but if it was me I'd rather go down with my best pitcher than with a guy who didn't look great earlier in the series.

Certainly not a fireable offense. That playoff roster tho.
 
KeithLockhart said:
As stupid as it sounds, I think Bobby probably does the same thing in Fredi's shoes.

I frankly did not see any difference in Fredi managing this than Bobby would have. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's kind of weird that this game was managed similarly.

Bobby would've left Garcia out there for as long as Fredi did. He would've IBB'd Hanley too to get the lefty-lefty matchup with A-Gon. He would've used Carpenter in the 8th and bridge to Kimbrel in the 9th because that's kind of how it's been the last few months of the season.

Would Bobby have used Uggla over Elliot? Who knows, can you remember a player that sucked that badly the last few months of the year that Bobby stuck with in October?
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Bobby Cox manages 162 game flawlessly but clueless in the playoffs, like FG, hence 14 CONSECUTIVE pennants and 1 WS win. You can't be that unlucky, you just can't.
 
Runnin said:
Yes, but Kimbrel doesn't usually get quick outs. He's known for walking folks and having long innings. He's never pitching 2 innings. 7th game of the WS, okay.
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http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=kimbrcr01&t=p&year=2013

You sure? He has an awful lot of 15 pitch or less innings. And Kimbrel pitched multiple innings in the minors and I'm sure all throughout his baseball career. Saying he couldn't go 2 innings is just a cop out. Even so, you throw him in the 8th and see what happens in the 9th.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Fredi's channeling of Bobby may have backfired on him. Bobby has always been loyal to guys. Carpenter has been great for us all season, and Fredi's loyalty (something Bobby would have done) is what ultimately is going to be the sour grapes from this game.

Bobby would've played it out the same way with Carpenter and Kimbrel back to back. Unfortunately it didn't work.
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Heard of Mark Wohlers?
 
Ive thought it over all night without pasting blame. Honestly with Puig and Uribe up, you gotta throw the man at em. Carp has been good (which he could have been used for the 9th if kimbrel did in fact struggle with the extra inning) vs the lower order hitters. I really think once Puig got on, you try and get out of that situation with Kimbrel. The best chance to have gotten away with it tied or no runs is not with David Carpenter, its with CK on the bump.
 
AerchAngel said:
8th and Mark was never the same again.
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Yeah. Wohlers was never the same. And I think of the more tragic case of Donnie Moore. I hope Carpenter doesn't take it too hard and bounces back strong next year. As hard as we fans take a loss like this, I have to believe it is harder for the players. Some of the comments by McCann and Freeman after the game last night suggested they were shellshocked.
 
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