GDT: Pirates vs Braves 5/22/17

[Preacher]

Assuming the miraculous doesn't happen and the Braves aren't within a couple games of the WC race near the deadline, all the vets on one-year deals need to be moved if even moderate offers are available.

That's Colon, Garcia, Phillips, Motte and Suzuki --- even if we are within 'sniffing' distance ~5 games.... those guys need to be moved.

The vets with a couple years on their deals should be shopped as well, but kept in Atlanta if nothing worthwhile is offered, that's Flowers, Dickey, Adams, Johnson, Markakis and Kemp types.

Like some others on here, I don't want Coppy to feel like THIS is the year - overall we actually have some surprisingly good pieces to offer, Motte looks great, Jim Johnson could net something, Flowers is resurgent and Garcia is coming off a great start - these guys could bring back few B level prospects potentially.

 

[TheBravos]

Assuming the miraculous doesn't happen and the Braves aren't within a couple games of the WC race near the deadline, all the vets on one-year deals need to be moved if even moderate offers are available.

That's Colon, Garcia, Phillips, Motte and Suzuki --- even if we are within 'sniffing' distance ~5 games.... those guys need to be moved.

The vets with a couple years on their deals should be shopped as well, but kept in Atlanta if nothing worthwhile is offered, that's Flowers, Dickey, Adams, Johnson, Markakis and Kemp types.

Like some others on here, I don't want Coppy to feel like THIS is the year - overall we actually have some surprisingly good pieces to offer, Motte looks great, Jim Johnson could net something, Flowers is resurgent and Garcia is coming off a great start - these guys could bring back few B level prospects potentially.

....and what happens "if" we are say three games out? That's my fear.

 

[Enscheff]

I hope not. Coppy is quickly putting himself in a corner though with all this "We want to contend now" and "We are done trading MLB players for prospects".

We still need all the prospects we can get. MLB players would be great also, but we need to make the trade if the talent is there for either.

I fear if we are anywhere near a wildcard, we will not move ONE vet, and actually we will give up prospects and add players.

This is a kick in the teeth in two ways.
1. In no way will we contend this year, so anyone acquired does not help in the least unless it's a long term peice and those are VERY pricey and the most expensive at the deadline.

2. Most of the vets are on one year deals, so if we don't move them...we literally get nothing.

I didn't follow the recent rebuilds of teams like Cubs and Astros super closely, but I have to think every rebuild goes through this awkward phase where they aren't yet contenders, but they are done being sellers. At some point the FO has to draw a line in the sand and state "rebuild over", time to get better. It is pretty clear that line has been drawn in Atlanta.

Whether we agree with the timing or not (I happen to think they should have punted this season too, waited until a few weeks into this season to call up Swanson, and not used up so much money to sign Colon/Dickey/Garcia), the worst thing they can do is erase the line and decide to start selling again. None of the vets on the current roster will bring back any return that makes a difference. It's not like they have a Heyward, JUp, Simmons or Kimbrel to trade for quality assets, so stay the course, win a few more games than last year, wait for Albies to inherit 2B next season, and allow the young pitchers to develop.

As long as Coppy doesn't do stupid-level buying at the deadline, the Braves will be fine overall.

The realistic goal is 75 wins this year, then 80+ wins next year. That's how rebuilds work. There will never be a single point in time when all the prospects line up and Coppy can flip the switch to suddenly transform a 68 win team into an 85 win team over the course of a single offseason.

 

[Southcack77]

If they are out of the wild card chase, they should absolutely try and get what they can out of guys on expiring deals.

Something is better than nothing and there are countless examples of these trades coming back to haunt contenders. Try to make another one.

 

[Preacher]

I didn't follow the recent rebuilds of teams like Cubs and Astros super closely, but I have to think every rebuild goes through this awkward phase where they aren't yet contenders, but they are done being sellers. At some point the FO has to draw a line in the sand and state "rebuild over", time to get better. It is pretty clear that line has been drawn in Atlanta.

Whether we agree with the timing or not (I happen to think they should have punted this season too, waited until a few weeks into this season to call up Swanson, and not used up so much money to sign Colon/Dickey/Garcia), the worst thing they can do is erase the line and decide to start selling again. None of the vets on the current roster will bring back any return that makes a difference. It's not like they have a Heyward, JUp, Simmons or Kimbrel to trade for quality assets, so stay the course, win a few more games than last year, wait for Albies to inherit 2B next season, and allow the young pitchers to develop.

As long as Coppy doesn't do stupid-level buying at the deadline, the Braves will be fine overall.

The realistic goal is 75 wins this year, then 80+ wins next year. That's how rebuilds work. There will never be a single point in time when all the prospects line up and Coppy can flip the switch to suddenly transform a 68 win team into an 85 win team over the course of a single offseason.

There's no reason to draw a 'hard-line' in the sand. Coppy could well decide that we have left the rebuilding phase and are focused on winning now, but that it STILL makes sense to deal vets on one-year deals that aren't going to be part of our future. Dealing veterans that aren't going to help us down the line isn't 'erasing the line and starting over' its just smart baseball. Its also short-sighted to say none of the Colon, Phillips, Garcia, Flowers types would bring back a return that makes any difference. That's like saying why bother with second round picks in the NBA, well sometimes those second round picks turn into guys like Isaiah Thomas.... didn't we just flip less than guys like Garcia for Travis Demerritte last year?

If all you get out of the Colon, Dickey, Garcia, Phillips, Motte group is some low-level prospects with upside, isn't that still worth it, in case one of them hits??

 

[Enscheff]

There's no reason to draw a 'hard-line' in the sand. Coppy could well decide that we have left the rebuilding phase and are focused on winning now, but that it STILL makes sense to deal vets on one-year deals that aren't going to be part of our future. Dealing veterans that aren't going to help us down the line isn't 'erasing the line and starting over' its just smart baseball. Its also short-sighted to say none of the Colon, Phillips, Garcia, Flowers types would bring back a return that makes any difference. That's like saying why bother with second round picks in the NBA, well sometimes those second round picks turn into guys like Isaiah Thomas.... didn't we just flip less than guys like Garcia for Travis Demerritte last year?

If all you get out of the Colon, Dickey, Garcia, Phillips, Motte group is some low-level prospects with upside, isn't that still worth it, in case one of them hits??

My comments are assuming the Braves are "in it" at the deadline.