zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Thethe's boy has now killed an American Citizen who was in a Ukrainian Hospital because his wife was receiving treatment there.
Global Events & Politics Überthread
- Thread starter Hawk
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
U being racist dude
No - Same status. They contained pathogens that is making a seasoned US official concerned that the Russians will get their hands on it. Very benign indeed.
Oh yeah and the US was funding it. Small things.
Now go ahead and spread more Deza about the Biden laptop seal.
For real - Wouldn't want another Wuhan lab 'incident'.
You know...that other 'Research' lab funded by the US.
I literally don't remember anyone on the left saying that.
Show me.what notable Democrat said that's what caused 9/11.
Ron Paul was the only one talking about that in the mainstream.
Yet another whataboutism.
Again - Those that don't want to be consistent complain about whataboutism.
I can't help it that you guys choose not to educate yourself about Ukraines history. There is a lot of information out there to digest. But continue the bloodlust for figures like Putin. The damage we are doing now will last for decades after Putin thankfully is gone.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
They guy I read for Ukrainian history is Timothy Snyder. I dunno about the rest of y'all. Read "Bloodlands" way back when it came out in hardcover. Simon Sebag-Montefiore has a good account of certain events in Ukrainian in his excellent bio of Stalin "The Red Tsar."
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If you did read this then you would know that the area has been labeled the "Bloodlands" because of how long there has been fighting in this region. What we are seeing now will not be the last time.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Recent essay by Timothy Snyder on Ukrainian history.
https://snyder.substack.com/p/kyivs-ancient-normality-redux?utm_source=url&s=r
https://snyder.substack.com/p/kyivs-ancient-normality-redux?utm_source=url&s=r
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
why don't you take time to read it and other accounts of the history of the region by serious historians
or if you are too busy you can read the short essay by Snyder that I linked above...you'll learn more than from the bots you follow on twitter
his opening observation about Vikings is confirmed by the Scandinavian DNA that many slavic people find (to their surprise) when they take a DNA test
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The concluding paragraphs of Snyder's essay:
The histories of Ukraine and Russia are of course related, via the Soviet Union and the Russian Empire, and via Orthodox religion, and much else. The modern Ukrainian and Russian nations are both still in formation, and entanglements between them are to be expected, now and into the future. But Russia is, in its early expansion and contemporary geography, a country deeply connected to Asia; this is not true of Ukraine. The history of Kyiv and surrounding lands embraces certain European trends that are less pronounced in Russia. Poland and Lithuania and the Jews are indispensable referents for any account of the Ukrainian past. Ukraine cannot be understood without the European factors of expansive Lithuania and Poland, of renaissance, of Reformation, of national revival, of attempts at national statehood. The landmarks of the world wars are planted deeply in both countries, but especially so in Ukraine.
The history of Kyiv is, so to speak, normal in the extreme. It falls easily into a normal European periodization. The additional complexity and intensity of these typical experiences can help us see the whole of European history more clearly. Some of these references are different, or absent, in Russia. This can make it difficult for Russians (even in good faith) to interpret Ukrainian history, or the history that is "shared": the “same” event, for example the Bolshevik revolution or Stalinism, can look different from different perspectives.
The myth of eternal brotherhood, now offered in bad faith by the Russian president, must be understood in the categories of politics rather than history. But a little bit of history can help us to see the bad faith, and to understand the politics.
The histories of Ukraine and Russia are of course related, via the Soviet Union and the Russian Empire, and via Orthodox religion, and much else. The modern Ukrainian and Russian nations are both still in formation, and entanglements between them are to be expected, now and into the future. But Russia is, in its early expansion and contemporary geography, a country deeply connected to Asia; this is not true of Ukraine. The history of Kyiv and surrounding lands embraces certain European trends that are less pronounced in Russia. Poland and Lithuania and the Jews are indispensable referents for any account of the Ukrainian past. Ukraine cannot be understood without the European factors of expansive Lithuania and Poland, of renaissance, of Reformation, of national revival, of attempts at national statehood. The landmarks of the world wars are planted deeply in both countries, but especially so in Ukraine.
The history of Kyiv is, so to speak, normal in the extreme. It falls easily into a normal European periodization. The additional complexity and intensity of these typical experiences can help us see the whole of European history more clearly. Some of these references are different, or absent, in Russia. This can make it difficult for Russians (even in good faith) to interpret Ukrainian history, or the history that is "shared": the “same” event, for example the Bolshevik revolution or Stalinism, can look different from different perspectives.
The myth of eternal brotherhood, now offered in bad faith by the Russian president, must be understood in the categories of politics rather than history. But a little bit of history can help us to see the bad faith, and to understand the politics.
But again - Its great to understand history from 50-100-500 years ago. It always plays a role.
But there were events in just the last 10 years that brought us to where we are today. And if you choose to ignore them then thats fine. If you do you are missing the big story.
But there were events in just the last 10 years that brought us to where we are today. And if you choose to ignore them then thats fine. If you do you are missing the big story.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Of course the recent history is relevant. I don't think anyone has said it isn't. The particular lens through which you appear to see it is the part that is in question.
The lens of official conversations which showed the US playing a roll in a color revolution or is that a Kremlin lie?
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The Ukrainians rose up against a corrupt system. Every revolution is messy both in execution and in its aftermath. To their credit the Ukrainian people have made progress both in terms of establishing a democratic system and reducing corruption. It remains very much a work in progress. The direction of that progress is what is so objectionable to Vlad the Bad. But it should be for the Ukrainians to decide, not him.