Global Events & Politics Überthread

goldfly said:
I’m old enough to remember thethe praising trump for withdrawing from the Middle East (which we weren’t doing but so be it) and stopping endless wars and thankful that Hillary wasn’t in charge to continue or start Wars
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It's a fantasy to think we can withdraw from the rest of the world. But a bipartisan one shared by chosen one, Sanders, Warren, Gabbard, Paul and many others.
 
nsacpi said:
It's a fantasy to think we can withdraw from the rest of the world. But a bipartisan one shared by chosen one, Sanders, Warren, Gabbard, Paul and many others.
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I think there was a window to mostly leave Iraq... but that was almost a decade ago. Obama had an opportunity but the "let them finish the mission, leaving leaves us less safe, and let the generals decide" crowd in the right-wing wouldn't let him.

Keep in mind, I think leaving completely was never an option, and bases like the ones in Kuwait, Japan, and Korea were always going to be roughly permanent.

But I think going to war with Iran is going to be much more taxing on us than Afghanistan and Iraq. They have a solidified and disciplined military. Iraq's military in 2003 was a shell of itself from 1991. And again, the military mostly did not see it worth fighting to save Saddam. The only saving grace is, a lot of the Iranian population are pro-west and like American culture, so they may be much more welcoming if we don't screw up.
 
The Chosen One said:
I think there was a window to mostly leave Iraq... but that was almost a decade ago.

Keep in mind, I think leaving completely was never an option, and bases like the ones in Kuwait, Japan, and Korea were always going to be roughly permanent.

But I think going to war with Iran is going to be much more taxing on us than Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Asymmetric conflict is what has been going on with Iran. We are actually "winning" with economic sanctions. I'm not sure it serves our interest to move onto terrain where they may have the advantage. They will likely press Iraq to ask us to leave. And they will look for chances to kill high profile Americans. And we may see a return to kidnappings and hostage taking such as we had in Beirut during the Lebanese Civil War.
 
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The Chosen One said:
was it as ambitious of a love letter as Kim Jong's to Don?
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Better. You have to remember that one of the greatest poets of all time (and the best selling poet in the United States) wrote in Persian.

Here is one of his better known efforts:

When I am with you, we stay up all night,
When you’re not here, I can’t get to sleep.
Praise God for these two insomnias!
And the difference between them

I don't think North Korea has produced anyone who can match that!
 
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

@AOC
·
2h


Right now is the moment to decide if you are pro-peace or not.

The cheerleaders of war, removed from its true cost, will gladly convince you that up is down - just as they did in Iraq in ‘03.

But war does not establish peace.
War does not create security.
War endangers us all.
…………………………………………………….

So yeah, which side are you on ?

War advocates start off saying “we all want peace, but...”

or “it’s too late...”

& frame a pro-peace agenda as naïve to realpolitik.

Don’t give into this gaslighting.

The same folks selling us Iraq and selling us this

latest provocation of violence.

We cannot repeat this cycle.
 
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Yes, the invading power that killed hundreds of thousands, kicked down thousands of doors in the middle of the night, and planted a permanent military presence in the region is definitely not the antagonizer.

Given how sensitive you are to people “invading” your country to, like, work, it seems like you might see this differently.
 
Julio3000 said:
Yes, the invading power that killed hundreds of thousands, kicked down thousands of doors in the middle of the night, and planted a permanent military presence in the region is definitely not the antagonizer.

Given how sensitive you are to people “invading” your country to, like, work, it seems like you might see this differently.
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Did we invade Iran?

The idea that Iran is the victim here is disgusting. We had a right to avenge the deaths caused by this scum.

Iran is weak now and wont do a thing.
 
“Invading” a country with, like, drywall hanging tools is horrific but literally invading and occupying a foreign country is cool.
 
thethe said:
Did we invade Iran?

The idea that Iran is the victim here is disgusting. We had a right to avenge the deaths caused by this scum.

Iran is weak now and wont do a thing.
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Weird that invading Iraq led to the regional primacy of Iran.
 
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The invasion of Iraq was quite explicitly—and by that I mean literally stated—supposed to be a precursor to regime change in Iran. It was literally the stated ultimate goal by the neocon crowd.
 
The fact that it led to de facto control over a large portion of Iraq by Iran should be a cautionary tale, but apparently isn’t.
 
“Oh, we didn’t invade Iran! Just their next-door neighbor, with the express purpose of creating a base to invade Iran in the future!”

How could they possibly have misunderstood our intentions?
 
I dunno. Just pretend that Iran invaded, occupied, and tried to set up a puppet state in Mexico, and built permanent military bases there. Not something we’d be at all concerned about, I guess.
 
Sorry you feel that way. A mistake was made in the past but td hat doesn't mean we should be limp in the face of aggression.

It didnt stop Iran with a charm offensive from the last administration.

More attacks now confimed. Iran leadership better be careful because the US is not going to hesitate anymore.
 
half a sense of US/Persian relations tells you yes, the US did invade Iran in 1954 overthrowing an existing monarchy in favor of a western leaning Shah that lasted until 1979.
We can pretty much date our tensions with the Iranians to November 1979. Or to take it one step backwards, 1954

Now, why would the US interfere in Persian politics in 1954 ?

One of my many problems with RedState America is they think history began the day they individually started paying attention.


I forget who said it but the way to understand geo-politics is to work backwards
 
I’m not really sure how you’re squaring imperialist aggression in the past being a mistake but imperialist aggression in the present being a-ok.
 
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