Gohara Starting Tonight

chop2chip said:
Your definition of optimality is based on expected values, right? Well previous to your excellent point of burning service time on the DL I didn't really see how this move moved the needle one way or the other, so as a fan I was just excited to see a player in very optimistic for (and I will always favor major league call ups because I principally hate the current service time system that incentivizes teams from playing their best, most exciting players).

But even with a very small possibility of injury, the potential downside is so enormous such that it outweighs any superfluous upside possibility. So thanks ensheff, now I have to watch tonight's game with a small bit of contempt.
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Oh I'm still going to enjoy watching, just like I enjoy watching Swanson and Albies. I made a point to see all MLB debuts of the young pitchers (Newk, Fried, Sims). I can still be a fan while criticizing the moves made by the FO. Most around here think being a fan is spending your free time on your knees in Coppy's office licking his boots while telling him how great his bald head looks, but that isn't so.

I want to see a LHed Folty out there tonight, which is how Gohara has been billed.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
40 man

At some point the FO is going to lose a player or more (either already on the team or a player it would like to take a chance on but can't) because it must protect them or lose them. In season, this isn't as a big a deal. However out of season when you're trying to bring in possibilities as a rebuilding team it limits your options. And the Braves are limiting their options for no good reason other than what Enscheff said ... somebody has made enough poor decisions that more poor decisions are needed to save their asses.
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What player is it that you are worried about losing to 40 man roster concerns this year?

Does Gohara having to be added to the 40 man roster anyway not moot any concern you have about him being promoted now as pertains to the 40 man roster?

....

If you cannot identify the player and you agree that Gohara would have to be added anyway what's the big deal from a 40 man perspective. We did this dance before and you didn't identify anyone.

You want to leave it nebulous, I guess.

The 40 man probably becomes a bigger problem next season.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Might want to read the rest of it before you clvclv
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Exactly what part do you think I missed?

50 simply pointed out what others have - that the move was happening this winter. Even the blackjack dealer has admitted that the service-time issues have less bearing on Pitchers. This literally could affect Gohara's clock by ONE day. Of course, if he spends one day in Gwinnett at the beginning of 2018, it doesn't.

Those who bitch are simply going to bitch even though they can't argue that point.

Fussing about clocks for Pitchers is a little beyond ridiculous - find something useful like bitching about the fact that Ozzie's going to be ineligible for ROY in 2018.
 
clvclv said:
Fussing about clocks for Pitchers is a little beyond ridiculous - .
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Why is it different for pitchers? Other than they are more volatile commodities, we'll still regret blowing service time if he becomes the stud we hope he does

clvclv said:
find something useful like bitching about the fact that Ozzie's going to be ineligible for ROY in 2018
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Sadly, I bet you actually care about this
 
As I have said a number of times, it's not only those inside your organization that you don't want to lose but also those outside the organization that you would like to take a chance on but don't have room for.

It's a small point but you don't committ unforced errors. Adding Fried, Albies Minter and Swanson, outside of the much more important service time consideration, was unnecessary and will be 4 spots the Braves don't have this offseason.

They may lose no one of consequence and may miss out on nothing external such as a rule 5 claim of consequence
 
Horsehide Harry said:
As I have said a number of times, it's not only those inside your organization that you don't want to lose but also those outside the organization that you would like to take a chance on but don't have room for.

It's a small point but you don't committ unforced errors. Adding Fried, Albies Minter and Swanson, outside of the much more important service time consideration, was unnecessary and will be 4 spots the Braves don't have this offseason.

They may lose no one of consequence and may miss out on nothing external such as a rule 5 claim of consequence
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How long did you want Swanson and Minter to stay down?? One is a college reliever with a history of arm trouble and the other a college SS who was the #1 pick. At some point they have to come up.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
As I have said a number of times, it's not only those inside your organization that you don't want to lose but also those outside the organization that you would like to take a chance on but don't have room for.

It's a small point but you don't committ unforced errors. Adding Fried, Albies Minter and Swanson, outside of the much more important service time consideration, was unnecessary and will be 4 spots the Braves don't have this offseason.

They may lose no one of consequence and may miss out on nothing external such as a rule 5 claim of consequence
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As others have asked, which one of Jesse Biddle, Aaron Blair, Rex Brothers, Mauricio Cabrera, Jason Hursh, Ian Krol, Jason Motte, Matt Wisler, David Freitas, Tony Sanchez, Adonis Garcia, Jace Peterson, Lane Adams, Micah Johnson, and Danny Santana can you imagine stands in the way of keeping anyone you think will be a significant contributor that needs to be protected?

That's 15 40-Man Roster spots that can be cleared this afternoon if needed.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
May 2018
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I don't see the need to keep people like Minter down for that long if he's healthy, Swanson either for that matter.

I think there's a good balance and while the Braves haven't always found that balance, I think what you propose is the other end of the extreme - neither of which is ideal IMO.
 
Preacher said:
How long did you want Swanson and Minter to stay down?? One is a college reliever with a history of arm trouble and the other a college SS who was the #1 pick. At some point they have to come up.
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I would have pulled up Swanson this year, in May at the earliest.

I would have pulled up Ozzie next year, in May at the earliest

I would have used off-days in April next year and call up Gohara in mid-April at the earliest

I would pull up Acuna in July next year at the earliest.

I don't care about Minter
 
I was wondering if they'd go this route, I have no problem with it...Sims just doesn't seem to have the stuff and although Newk has had his ups and downs he deserves more time because of his strong stuff/upside...and where is Akeel?!?!

Per Kelsey Wingert

The #Braves will move to a 6-man rotation. Max Fried will start again on Saturday. Lucas Sims will move to the bullpen.
 
steveAKAslick said:
I was wondering if they'd go this route, I have no problem with it...Sims just doesn't seem to have the stuff and although Newk has had his ups and downs he deserves more time because of his strong stuff/upside...and where is Akeel?!?!

Per Kelsey Wingert

The #Braves will move to a 6-man rotation. Max Fried will start again on Saturday. Lucas Sims will move to the bullpen.
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It took 1 start to realize he wasn't going to cut it in the rotation based solely on his stuff.

I suppose this won't stop anyone from arguing about any other pitcher assesments though haha.
 
It's grasping at straws, but perhaps this is a carrot...and he does not have any shot at all at the major league rotation next year to start, but this is a carrot to reward him for his good work in the minors this year but eventually to remind him to keep working hard as he goes back to Gwinnett to start next season.

He also has to be on the 40 man anyway so his option years were going to start anyhow next year.

ETA: I don't agree with this call up though. It's both aggressive and stupid.
 
Enscheff said:
It took 1 start to realize he wasn't going to cut it in the rotation based solely on his stuff.

I suppose this won't stop anyone from arguing about any other pitcher assesments though haha.
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I agree with you on Sims, I want to see Fried a few more times before we determine his future. Being LH with a 65 curve give him more upside.
 
Meh dont agree with it, but pitchers are like lottery tickets.

Never know what you got until you play them.

Calling up position players given we're not strong there, is another story.
 
Oklahomabrave said:
I agree with you on Sims, I want to see Fried a few more times before we determine his future. Being LH with a 65 curve give him more upside.
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I give pitchers a lot of leeway. Sims looks to have sacrificed velocity for command and it will be interesting to see if he throws harder out of the bullpen.
 
Enscheff said:
Correct. Fried is a LOOGY or multi-inning guy. Sims isn't a long term MLB pitcher.

MLB LOOGY > AAAA starter.
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Are you saying that as his ceiling? Fried's consistently great GB% give me hope he still has a number 3 starter ceiling, even though I agree with your previous assessment shows he isn't currently that.
 
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