Govt. Shutdown

KeithLockhart said:
And the Dems not willing to negotiate is the right move.

Never has one party ever been this extreme in shutting down the government in an attempt to repeal duly-passed legislation.

You shouldn't compromise just because the other team has some severe sour grapes. GOP could've brought these discussions up months ago, but they waited until the game clock expired because they knew they'd have more leverage.

At least Boehner has enough balls to admit he isn't going to let us default.
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So when the dems don't compromise it's the right move and when the reps don't it's sour grapes. Sounds like a fair analysis.
 
Let's be clear. Both parties actually are negotiating right now. They will reach an agreement before the debt ceiling deadline. Paul is just bringing up the media strategy between the 2 parties. The dems are saying they won't negotiate even though they are. And reps are saying they are more than willing to negotiate. Paul is just stating that he thinks the dem strategy is stupid and the rep strategy is the winning one.

Time will tell if Paul is right on that.
 
weso1 said:
So when the dems don't compromise it's the right move and when the reps don't it's sour grapes. Sounds like a fair analysis.
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Dems have no reason to compromise. The Republicans are holding our government hostage right now over a bill that was signed into law 3 years ago.

Healthcare law has NOTHING to do with passing a CR bill. Well Boehner won't even put a CR bill up to vote.

In this instance, it's the right move for the Dems not to negotiate. They have no reason to because the Republicans are leveraging a proxy war.
 
weso1 said:
Let's be clear. Both parties actually are negotiating right now. They will reach an agreement before the debt ceiling deadline. Paul is just bringing up the media strategy between the 2 parties. The dems are saying they won't negotiate even though they are. And reps are saying they are more than willing to negotiate. Paul is just stating that he thinks the dem strategy is stupid and the rep strategy is the winning one.

Time will tell if Paul is right on that.
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Not necessarily.

The Dems don't need to negotiate on anything. There's already a bunch of Republicans who think this has dragged out too long already and are ready to vote and pass a CR bill if Boehner brings it up to vote. Peter King already said there's a few dozen of House Republicans ready to vote with Democrats on a CR bill if it gets brought up. The only people holding this up are Boehner, Cantor, and the Tea Party.

Boehner has already stated he won't let us default, and there's only a few insane Republicans that would actually vote Nay on raising debt ceiling.
 
They are meeting and negotiating. This is actually happening. There are actual new stories on this. Don't get too hung up on what is said in public.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Not necessarily.

The Dems don't need to negotiate on anything. There's already a bunch of Republicans who think this has dragged out too long already and are ready to vote and pass a CR bill if Boehner brings it up to vote. Peter King already said there's a few dozen of House Republicans ready to vote with Democrats on a CR bill if it gets brought up. The only people holding this up are Boehner, Cantor, and the Tea Party.

Boehner has already stated he won't let us default, and there's only a few insane Republicans that would actually vote Nay on raising debt ceiling.
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The why doesn't explain away your hypocrisy on this.
 
weso1 said:
They are meeting and negotiating. This is actually happening. There are actual new stories on this. Don't get too hung up on what is said in public.
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They are meeting and negotiating, because they want the public to "know" that something good may be happening.

When it's all said and done, Boehner is going to put a CR bill on the floor with nothing changed, the House Dems will have House Republicans voting with them, while the Tea Party faction will have enough votes to vote No but not block the bill, the Senate will pass it, etc.

The political theater the Republicans have produced the last week or so, has almost run its course.
 
weso1 said:
So when the dems don't compromise it's the right move and when the reps don't it's sour grapes. Sounds like a fair analysis.
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The Democrats have already compromised on the budget. Repeatedly.

Not giving the R's the unreasonable thing they're asking for =/= not compromising.
 
Julio3000 said:
The Democrats have already compromised on the budget. Repeatedly.

Not giving the R's the unreasonable thing they're asking for =/= not compromising.
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Look, the dems are the ones saying they aren't negotiating, not me. I'm saying in reality they are negotiating. Congressional leaders just recently met with each other and the president. I don't expect the pubs to get the year delay they seek either. But there are other things they'll try to get.
 
This isn't between (D) and (R). It is between mainstream (R) and TBaggers.
Until that side of the aisle straightens out their differences nothing will happen.

Reports are 21 (R) House members are willing to vote with (D) to end the shutdown. However Boehner, fearing losing his leadership, won't put the vote on the floor.
It is ludicrous bordering on ignorant to even give thought that both sides equally share responsibility for this mess.

Another thing -- there are approximatly 20-60 safe House districts that are driving this. 20-60 that represent 18% of the population
 
I'm a solid Democrat, but this is really nothing new if you look at American history. The era of American history starting with the Missouri Compromise and ending with the civil war had brinksmenship that make these guys look like rank amateurs. Plus, the future of the country was much more tenuous then.

The Republicans are playing a high stakes game here. I think they are losing this battle, but the public's attention span isn't that long on these crises. But they are using the tools they have at their disposal. Do I agree with them? No. Do I want the Tea Party to lose? Yes. But this is what politics is about. It's a contact sport and we midway through this particular rugby match.
 
50, I respect you. What I don't is the homerism, "only my jersey guys do it right," ra-ra, of others who when the shoe is on the other foot would cheer the same game plan they lambast. And who conveniently never seem to see the dirty tricks of their guys. And those that think only the opposite jersey folks have "radical extremists." And I'm getting close to Hawk territory by the day.
 
I'm saying in reality they are negotiating.

Yeah, I think that's a reasonable assumption. I'm just saying that the statement that the Ds aren't compromising isn't.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Yeah. Anyone who thinks Obama is hyperpartisan is insane. Reid isn't even as liberal as Pelosi, he just happens to be majority leader. Pelosi may be far left in the House, but Reid isn't as liberal as someone like a Bernie or Warren or even a Ron Wyden.

Also, the notion that we have to meet halfway with Republicans on everything is also insane. If I'm looking at a left to right scale from -10 to +10 with 0 being the center of this country... I'd say mainstream Dems fall in the -3 or -4 on the left side, and the GOP currently falls on the +8,+9 on that scale. The middleground of -4 and +9 is going to be +2 or +3. Concessions would be to find something to meet back at 0, but that'd be too "liberal" for this currrent mainstream GOP.
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Bedell please go back to see Meta and 50's posts on page 3 along with this apt description. Make your claim about radicals on either side all you like but it really doesn't wash.
 
BedellBrave said:
50, I respect you. What I don't is the homerism, "only my jersey guys do it right," ra-ra, of others who when the shoe is on the other foot would cheer the same game plan they lambast. And who conveniently never seem to see the dirty tricks of their guys. And those that think only the opposite jersey folks have "radical extremists." And I'm getting close to Hawk territory by the day.
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Please show me the (D) equivalent to this!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/tom-corbett-***-marriage-incest_n_4043202.html

I would ask that he / she be a Governor.
//

Please take the time to find a (D) equivalent to Phil Gingrey
http://www.ontheissues.org/GA/Phil_Gingrey.htm#Energy_+_Oil

Pick most any elected official
 
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