The bullpen wasn't as good as it is now. I know its not a shoe-in but I really do think the team could wina lot of games. The pitching is really rounding into form. We just need some more offense.
Grilli Close To Being Moved???
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The bullpen wasn't as good as it is now. I know its not a shoe-in but I really do think the team could wina lot of games. The pitching is really rounding into form. We just need some more offense.
Woah, this isn't even the best farm system in the last 5 years.
2010- Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, Vizcaino, Pastor, Delgado, Beachy, Minor, Hoover, Schafer, Collins, Diamond, Gorkys, Hicks, etc.
That's because you are thethe
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Winning ahead of schedule is extremely dangerous to the long term health and welfare of the team. The goal is to be good in 2017 and beyond.
Yes, the Farm is in better shape than it was. But, no matter how many warm feelings we have about it, the Farm doesn't have many viable bats and those that can play are blocked by similar young players at the ML level. And you can't go sign FA bats because there aren't many and the few that are there you aren't likely to get.
So, that means you have to trade for bats which would mean giving up at least some of that pitching depth that you have acquired to improve the farm and presumably the ML team at some point.
You seem to be someone who concentrates on today and is ok letting tomorrow settle itself out. That's the mind set of a large market fan like those of the Yankees or Red Sox - don't tell me about 2017, I want to win today & when 2017 gets here I want to win then too.
Well, the Braves aren't those teams. They have stated that the goal is to put the very best team possible on the field in 2017. Part of insuring that is to make best use of all assets leading up to 2017.
Thats because we know what those players became.
I was pro the rebuild from the beginning because I believe in long term success. I'm not asking them to sell the farm to win this year. I'm saying that I think trading Grilli for a marginal prospect doesn't impact the long term plans just as keeping him doesn't. The difference of 2 or 3 wins means little to nothingin baseball in terms of better chances to get talent in the drafts.
LOL, what? We have no one ranked as highly as Freeman or Heyward. We don't have anyone with the talent of Teheran. You are insane.
Albies and Peraza are both top 50 and Albies could potentially be a top 10 prospect. Maybe guys like Wisler/Banuelos/Folty lose their eligiblity but they are all top 50-100 type prospects. I would think the Braves place as many people or more in national publications top 100 listings this year than they did in 2010. Plus, the farm is deeper this year.
I don't understand why you have to throw insults around in my direction all the time. Is that really necessary?
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
It's the mindset that is wrong. If you keep Grilli, then why not Johnson? Why not Avilan? Why not Maybin? Why trade anyone? Why not just leave the team alone and see if they can contend?
Next thing you know it's well, we need another bat. Let's go get a pen arm. And on and on.
It's why players and Managers don't make good GM's because they can't see the forest.
If you do nothing or add then you never know what you lost through inaction so it's easy not to be criticized -"Well, we were in it so we owed it to the fans and ourselves to go for it."
It takes guts to say this team may look like they are in it but the aren't. The odds are way too long to trust in luck and jeopardize our long term plan therefore we are going to move forward and improve our long term outlook, unfortunately at the expensive of our short term product.
Then you have to be right or you get fired. But, if ownership and Senior management wasn't sure about Hart and the scouts, then why can Wren?
Because you don't even make sense. Heyward was the top prospect in baseball or worst case top 5-10. Freeman was top 25. We had an incredible amount of depth. We have no one in the same class as Heyward/Freeman/Teheran right now. Im sorry for the insults, I'm simply amazed at your level of homerism.
Freeman was 32 in 2010 but thats just semantics. Albies is every bit the prospect as Freeman was and he is doing it at age 18. Its very possible that Albies is a top 25 prospect by the end of the season.
I appreciate the apology but how are you amazed? I've been this way forever now. This is how I view things. I thinkthe case can be made this is the best farm system in over a decade. Obviously Heyward was a generational prospect and we don't have that piece but in terms of overall talent I think we are right there this year especially if we get that kid next year.
And if the players you get for Grilli end up being nothing then what was the point in the first place? I'm sure ownership would not mind meaningful games in September.
We are always told that baseball is a game of luck and especially the playoffs. Well then, if the return is not worth it then I say lets test our luck.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
You pay Hart and the Scouts to make sure that they get back something useful. Does it always work out? No. But, that's why it's important to have prospect depth.
As far as being told baseball is luck, especially in the playoffs, that's just excuses coming from those who have lost. Baseball is 162 games, specifically to weed out the luck factor. I'm not talking about injury luck, etc. I'm talking about bad players or bad teams who just so happen to luck into a win(s) by being at the right place at the right time. The playoffs are the best of the best as determined over 162. Short term peaks and valleys CAN be prominent in the playoffs and do have an effect but it's still between the best of the best.
It's like the excuses I hear from other Braves fans when discussing all the playoff appearances through the 90's and early 2000's with only one WS win. They say it was luck. The Braves got unlucky. No one wants to say that the approach was flawed with too much emphasis on starting pitching and not enough on offense and the pen. That would be criticism of the "dynasty." To me, those teams were built for the regular season and not the playoffs and got the results that they were built for. Good teams make their luck.
I think it is pretty simple. If the return for Grilli is a good to very good prospect that has at least a decent chance of being a good major league ballplayer in the future, then I think the prudent thing to do is to make that move. On the other hand, if the return is a marginal prospect that most likely will not amount to anything more than at best a cup of coffee type player, then the only decision to make is to keep Grilli.
I agree that our system was slightly better them. It was definitely better in high-end prospects, though I think it is deeper now.
We did not have Gorkys in 2010 and picked up Pastornicky during that season, after Heyward had graduated. Our system then was about Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, and Kimbrel. There was a clear drop-off to the Minor/Spruill/Hoover group after that. I don't think that group is as good as the bottom of our top 10 right now, and I think 11-15 is clearly better now. Guys like Milligan and Mycal Jones were barely prospects.
And I think we certainly have more guys now with the capability of being good major league players. I would put Folty, Wisler, Banuelos, Albies, Davidson, Peraza, Jenkins, Peterson, Ruiz, Toussaint, Allard, Sims, and Mallex Smith all ahead of Spruill and Hoover then, who were about 9-10 for us.
But yes, it was certainly clearly better at the top. I think this system has the chance to be equal or better in that area in 2 years, but it has to do it first.
That type of thinking also gets a lot of teams in trouble (see Tex trade). This team has virtually no shot at the playoffs. Any potential move should have that in mind.
I'm not asking them to make a move. i'm just saying consider not selling off if the returns are marginal.
ATLBraves247
Arizona Fall Leaguer
We need to play Johnson more, he's not as bad as his stats and we certainly are showcasing him. Kelly in left Johnson at first base. I would trade Grilli just because I think he's playing beyond himself this year. He's been serviceable for us and deserves to go to a contender while bringing us something good in return.
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