I agree. Also interesting that Andruw actually gained in % from the non revealed ballots which usually doesn't happen.
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- Thread starter CrimsonCowboy
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I agree. Also interesting that Andruw actually gained in % from the non revealed ballots which usually doesn't happen.
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
Man, thinking about that 14 year run, Chipper joins Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Bobby Cox, and John Schuerholtz as Hall of Famers.
I'm sure we all loved Chipper, but going back and looking at his numbers makes me feel like we took him for granted.
7 seasons of 6+ fWAR, and another at 5.9.
Since he retired, the Braves have had a total of 3 player seasons worth 6+ fWAR (2012 Heyward, 2012 Bourn, 2016 Freeman).
In his peak from 1996-2008 (13 seasons!) he posted 11 seasons with an OPS of .900+, .950+ 9 times, and 1.000+ 5 times.
Since he retired, the Braves have had a total of 0 players seasons of 1.000+ OPS, 2 player seasons of .900+ OPS (both Freeman), and 8 player seasons of .800+ OPS.
Chipper's LOWEST full season OPS was .803. His WORST offensive season would have ranked in the Top 10 for all Braves player seasons since he retired.
He was consistently great for so long. The Braves have had nobody even on the same planet as Chipper since. Folks talk about how great Freeman is, but he is a role player compared to Chipper.
7 seasons of 6+ fWAR, and another at 5.9.
Since he retired, the Braves have had a total of 3 player seasons worth 6+ fWAR (2012 Heyward, 2012 Bourn, 2016 Freeman).
In his peak from 1996-2008 (13 seasons!) he posted 11 seasons with an OPS of .900+, .950+ 9 times, and 1.000+ 5 times.
Since he retired, the Braves have had a total of 0 players seasons of 1.000+ OPS, 2 player seasons of .900+ OPS (both Freeman), and 8 player seasons of .800+ OPS.
Chipper's LOWEST full season OPS was .803. His WORST offensive season would have ranked in the Top 10 for all Braves player seasons since he retired.
He was consistently great for so long. The Braves have had nobody even on the same planet as Chipper since. Folks talk about how great Freeman is, but he is a role player compared to Chipper.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Andruw stayed Alive barely. Hopefully he'll keep crawling up the charts slowly
striker42
Well-known member
Wow. Great post. We definitely took him for granted.
We had 4 first ballot HOFers play together for a long time. That's incredibly rare in any sport.
Pretty phenomenal. I spent a lot of my childhood through most of my 20's watching these guys and Chipper definitely stands out among them to me. I was able to watch his entire career and tried to emulate him while playing ball as a kid. I'll be there at Cooperstown to cheer him on.
Never. Some voters won't vote first ballot candidates. That's why nobody has had 100% already.
chop2chip
Well-known member
And some people won’t for candidates because they don’t like the way they tweet.
I seriously can’t stand that St Louis beat writer who refused to vote for Chipper for that reason. That’s more of a reason to strip his Hall vote than what Dan Le Batard did.
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
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zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I mean if Maddux and Johnson couldn't do it than no one can. We're talking about truly special once in a generation types from both of them.
It's pretty insane that baseball had 4 once in a lifetime pitchers all playing at the same time in Maddux, Johnson, Clemens, and Pedro.
Thanks for that summary Enscheff. Anyone have any stats on Chippers walk rate alltime? I guess Bonds leads by a wide margin, but Chipper must be up there. Early Heyward always had that over 0.100 walk rate. Freeman did not walk much back then. To me, walk rate will be a big determining factor of greatness with Albies and Acuna.
Southcack77
Well-known member
It's a little strange they were all playing during the roid era too.
We also know which one has connections to PEDs too.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
That's why that saying "once in a lifetime" is overused.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
The tweets in question were/are disgusting, but not voting for Chipper on those grounds should be utterly disqualifying for the BBWAA.
It's as simple as this: the career is over. The player's credentials don't change but perception might.
striker42
Well-known member
I would say all of Maddux, Johnson, and Pedro were once in a lifetime players for different reasons.
Maddux is the greatest control artist in the history of the game. None of us are likely to see anyone in that class again.
Johnson's overpowering stuff combined with his ridiculous durability is a once in a lifetime thing. I can't think of another pitcher in my lifetime who came close to having as dominant and overpowering an arsenal as him for as long as he did while pitching as much as he did. And with the way the game has changed, it's not likely to happen again.
Pedro at his peak was definitely the most dominant pitcher any of us have ever seen or maybe will ever see. He didn't have the longevity of Maddux or Johnson but at his peak he was better than either.
Maybe. Once in a generation maybe? Pitchers that good are super rare and they all just happened to pitch at the same time. An argument could be made that those 4 have been the best 4 pitchers since WW2. Clemens, Maddux, and Johnson are 1-3 in fWAR in that time frame and Pedro (10th) clearly has the best rate states of anybody since WW2 but not as many innings as the others.
Kershaw is the only guy since that will be mentioned with them.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
While i used once in a generation I think Johnson could be once in a lifetime. He was Nolan Ryan but better. Add in the physical aspect of a 6'11 side winding lefty and it makes him some kind of hybrid of Nolan Ryan and Walter Johnson, but did it during the most offensive friendly time in baseball history. Johnson didn't hit his stride as a pitcher until he was 30. He hit the majors at 25, and from 88-92 was a decent pitcher accumulating a 10 fWAR in that time. Not amazing and odds are you'd see someone with those numbers before 30 you'd write them off then he turned a corner and never looked back. 100 fWAR between 1993 and 2008. This is a man who at 40 almost posted a 10fWAR season. He was a truly special player.