Hart says "Stay Tuned"

thethe said:
I don't think the Braves need to give up much to "go for it" this season. What do they need first and foremost? Relief pitching. Hopefully Viz comes back and is effective. Then you rae looking for 1 or 2 6th/7th inning guys and that won't be thta expensive.

I don't think they will do anything with the positional players unlessa longterm upgrade piece becomes available.

Additional buzz and revenues is very important for the franchise. I fully believe that going into 2017 with momentum is tremendously important to this franchise.
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With the addition of Viz, Withrow and McKirahan, you could potentially sell one of Johnson/Grilli and still have a decent pen to make a playoff push.
 
jpx7 said:
I disagree: you quite certainly can do that to this team, and moreover I very much think they should. They're plucky, sure, but falling a few games short of the second wild-card in 2015 is not the prize for this organization at this point in the rebuilding curve.

And indeed, quite simply, I just don't believe this is a contending team in 2015: I think they're ultimately a little bit worse than their record has shown, while I think the Zombie Expos (painful as it is to say) are a lot better than their current record shows. I also think it's highly unlikely either wild-card comes out of the NL East.

This is a fun team to watch, but I think it takes some pretty rosy lenses—if not a bit of delusion, frankly—to think they're a serious playoff contender. Hart should squeeze whatever value he can out of the short-term veterans, and then maybe in 2016 the team is primed to seriously contend for a wild-card slot.
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Why second WC, and not division next year depending what happens.

While maybe the team is flukish, im not sure i'd trade every part for a lower tier prospect just to trade someone.
 
I would continue to make deals to improve the club long term, while also making low key deals like the Eveland deal to attempt to improve the club for the short term. May be trade the Cubbies Grilli or JJ and agree to take on Edwin Jackson in order to get back a better prospect.
 
jpx7 said:
I don't think this team is realistically making the playoffs, anyways, but what is all this residual value even if they did?
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Residual value of making the playoffs during a rebuilding year would be adding a big dose of winning spirit and confidence at the major league level, which this organization could surely use. If you believe the beat writers, and I don't completely, there has already been a positive transformation in the clubhouse, but just being in a pennant race would be good for this team. Even if it's delusional being this close to first place is great.

Another long-term residual value of making the playoffs this year would be securing Fredi's position for several more years. Just sayin'.

:FrediConfident:
 
I'd sell Grilli and Johnson.

No way we sell them if we are in the hunt. I think we'd need to be 5 games out to send those guys off.

I'm getting sucked in. I'm hoping our PED guys plus the LA kid and maybe Folty or Hursh give us some BP options.
 
Runnin said:
Residual value of making the playoffs during a rebuilding year would be adding a big dose of winning spirit and confidence at the major league level, which this organization could surely use. If you believe the beat writers, and I don't completely, there has already been a positive transformation in the clubhouse, but just being in a pennant race would be good for this team. Even if it's delusional being this close to first place is great.
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I guess I just don't buy that there is that much player-psychological, or team-sentimental, or good-clubhouse-cultural value in "just being in a pennant race". They wanted to tear it down; stay the course on being really good in a couple years, rather than suddenly deciding to try to be an inch or two better than mediocre immediately.
 
jpx7 said:
I guess I just don't buy that there is that much player-psychological, or team-sentimental, or good-clubhouse-cultural value in "just being in a pennant race". They wanted to tear it down; stay the course on being really good in a couple years, rather than suddenly deciding to try to be an inch or two better than mediocre immediately.
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I pretty much agree. Right now, we are riding some super good juju from Jace, Cam, Uribe, and Nick. While 1 or 2 might keep up this performance, it's unlikely all of them will.

I think we can hang around .500 most of the year, teasing the fans with playoff dreams, but in the end we just aren't quite good enough to overcome the Nats, Pirates, Cards, Mets, Giants, Cubbies, and Dodgers.

If we do decide to make a significant trade, it had better be to obtain a hitter with a good amount of control.
 
jpx7 said:
I guess I just don't buy that there is that much player-psychological, or team-sentimental, or good-clubhouse-cultural value in "just being in a pennant race". They wanted to tear it down; stay the course on being really good in a couple years, rather than suddenly deciding to try to be an inch or two better than mediocre immediately.
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Not "just" being in a pennant race, but playing good baseball and being rewarded for it, regardless of the place in the standings. You can begin building a winning atmosphere without all that much winning.

They didn't want to completely tear it down. That's why they brought in Markakis, etc. I don't think the FO cares about the playoffs this year, nor should it, but playing solid ball is important. If a byproduct of that is staying within sniffing distance of 1st place and the playoffs, all the better. It will be nice this off-season to the players coming back to know that they don't have far to go.

Player psychology and team sentiment matter bigtime. Are you kidding me? At the upper echelon of any sport it's THE most important thing.
 
jpx7 said:
stay the course on being really good in a couple years, rather than suddenly deciding to try to be an inch or two better than mediocre immediately.
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I think that's exactly what they'll do. Any moves made will not be at the expense of '17.
 
jpx7 said:
I guess I just don't buy that there is that much player-psychological, or team-sentimental, or good-clubhouse-cultural value in "just being in a pennant race". They wanted to tear it down; stay the course on being really good in a couple years, rather than suddenly deciding to try to be an inch or two better than mediocre immediately.
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The problem with this line of thought is that it is the perfect example of what separates "statheads" from "scoutheads" IMO.

Don't get me wrong - I'm still not SOLD on the idea that this team can be a contender, but I was in the same place in the summer of 1991 too. There's a lot more talent here than most people give credit to. Are some of them outperforming their previous production? Sure. But most of those players are players who were highly thought of before - Maybin/Perez/Miller/etc. who are playing at levels that weren't considered "unreasonable" in the past. Miller was projected as a potential "Ace", and Maybin was projected as a potential perennial All-Star at different times. Can they sustain this? Maybe, maybe not - but saying they can't just because they haven't on paper before backs you into a corner where you have no choice but to eat crow if they do, and also makes it seem that you think players aren't capable of "finding it" or improving when they finally make adjustments that they were expected to earlier in their careers.

Are Miller and Maybin THIS good, and can we expect this moving forward? I have no idea. What I do know is that there were quite a few scouts and front office executives that have believed this is what they are more than what we've seen thus far.

If you still believe that Jason Heyward can still eventually become a superstar, you can't argue with those that believe Cameron Maybin and Shelby Miller can be as well - Jason's track record isn't any better than theirs.
 
clvclv said:
on paper
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I'm going entirely on eyeballs and feelings here—so I know against what, and whom, you're arguing, but in this case it isn't me.

Generally, I do favor the analytics and like the paper-chase; but in a season I gave up as lost months before it even began, I've been flying mostly blind to the numbers and judging mostly by the seat of my guts—trying something different: blowing things up, as it were, for a season, since that's what the team did. So when I say I think this team is a few wins worse than their record, and I don't buy them as a real wild-card contender, that sentiment's coming from every place but on paper (though I've been told there are some solid paper-based reasons to be skeptical, as well).
 
clvclv said:
The problem with this line of thought is that it is the perfect example of what separates "statheads" from "scoutheads" IMO.

Don't get me wrong - I'm still not SOLD on the idea that this team can be a contender, but I was in the same place in the summer of 1991 too. There's a lot more talent here than most people give credit to. Are some of them outperforming their previous production? Sure. But most of those players are players who were highly thought of before - Maybin/Perez/Miller/etc. who are playing at levels that weren't considered "unreasonable" in the past. Miller was projected as a potential "Ace", and Maybin was projected as a potential perennial All-Star at different times. Can they sustain this? Maybe, maybe not - but saying they can't just because they haven't on paper before backs you into a corner where you have no choice but to eat crow if they do, and also makes it seem that you think players aren't capable of "finding it" or improving when they finally make adjustments that they were expected to earlier in their careers.

Are Miller and Maybin THIS good, and can we expect this moving forward? I have no idea. What I do know is that there were quite a few scouts and front office executives that have believed this is what they are more than what we've seen thus far.

If you still believe that Jason Heyward can still eventually become a superstar, you can't argue with those that believe Cameron Maybin and Shelby Miller can be as well - Jason's track record isn't any better than theirs.
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That's great. And while all these folks have played better than their careers suggest they should... we're a .500 team
 
I think the chances are much more likely that the Nationals suddenly go on a huge run and find themselves 10 up in the division, rather than they continue to plod along with the rest of the division.

Hopefully that will happen before the deadline.
 
weso1 said:
I think the chances are much more likely that the Nationals suddenly go on a huge run and find themselves 10 up in the division, rather than they continue to plod along with the rest of the division.

Hopefully that will happen before the deadline.
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Yeah, I have a feeling the Nationals are going to put us out of our misery this week.
 
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