Using only split stats to make a judgment on a player is pretty silly, imo. He isn't a .596 OPS hitter, just lIke he isn't a 1.000 OPS hitter. He's somewhere in between. And, while not as extreme, he did have some years with some pretty pronounced home road splits in Atl as well. Could be that he simply hits better in a stadium he feels more comfortable in. Or could be a complete aberration as he barely has 1 full season worth of PA's while playing for NY
Heyman: Braves have tried to trade CJ eating alot of the deal.
- Thread starter Heyward
- Start date
Using only split stats to make a judgment on a player is pretty silly, imo. He isn't a .596 OPS hitter, just lIke he isn't a 1.000 OPS hitter. He's somewhere in between. And, while not as extreme, he did have some years with some pretty pronounced home road splits in Atl as well. Could be that he simply hits better in a stadium he feels more comfortable in. Or could be a complete aberration as he barely has 1 full season worth of PA's while playing for NY
blueagleace1
Playing the Waiting Game
I see many of you on here making a case for us to make a run at acquiring Jonathan Lucroy.
*I know there's a strong chance that what I'm about to say is going to rub some people the wrong way and some (if not most) are going to emphatically say NO to my proposition for different reasons. But here it is anyways...
To me it's apparent that there are three main places this team needs to upgrade both for now and in the future:
1. Bullpen
2. Left Field
3. Catcher
Yes, Lucroy would solve our catching position but I want to propose another way to upgrade an area of need that I don't think will cost as much (solely in terms of prospects) as Lucroy. (Again, it's hard for me to make this proposition for reasons -that will be apparent- other than stats). Some might say that this package won't get it done, that it will take better prospects. If so, and that's the case and it doesn't then I say no thank you and walk away but before you instantly say it won't cut it or you don't want the players let me explain myself first...
Brewers get:
1. Lucas Sims
2. Jason Hursh
3. Daniel Castro
4. Todd Cunningham
5. Cody Martin
6. Chris Johnson (to help offset the cost a little)
Braves get:
1. Ryan Braun
2. Corey Knebel
3. CASH ($20 million or so)
Here's why I think it works:
Brewers side:
It's no secret that the Brewers would love to rid themselves of Ryan Braun and the roughly $100 million dollars they still owe him. We all know the Braun story so there is no need to go into detail about all that. The Brewers also know that they are going to have to eat some money in a deal if there is any chance of moving Braun. I would think they are taking the stance of "Let's do what we can to get out from underneath this deal and the more/better talent we can get back, the better". So first off and most importantly, they save close to $70 million in this deal. With Sims, Hursh, and Martin the Brewers would be adding three potential rotation candidates (Sims offers much higher upside than Hursh/Martin) in the near future to a system that is rather bare in the starting pitching department. With Castro and Cunningham they would get two guys that could help them out right away and would give them a viable replacement should they look to trade Carlos Gomez and/or Jean Segura both of whom would net them a decent to very nice (in the case of Gomez) return. If either/both of Gomez or Segura were traded, then Cunningham and Castro could step into the everyday role right away. Chris Johnson is in the deal mainly to help offset the cost but he would help them as well. With Aramis Ramirez set to become a free agent and Adam Lind having awful numbers against lefties, Johnson could be a nice addition to the Brewers as 3B insurance after this season and a platoon option with Lind at 1B right away.
Braves side:
I know there are many of you (including myself) that despise Braun for what he did but this move is about helping us win games both now and in the future. Braun would help us fill a couple holes in our everyday lineup. He can move back to his natural position of LF, he gives us our everyday LF, gives us another RH bat to add to a lineup that features four left handed hitters, and offers Freeman some protection. This would also allow you to move Markakis to the 5-hole and Braun would split he and Freeman up and not allow opposing managers to mix and match so easily like they can now by bringing in a LHP to face the top of our lineup that features a LHH in 3 of the first 4 spots in our order. Knebel gives us another late-inning reliever that likely would become our future closer.
Look, I know this wouldn't be a popular move right away but maybe with a change of scenery and a fresh start, Braun could start producing numbers like he did earlier in his career. (Insert PED line here). With the money and player salaries exchanging hands, we would be on the hook for roughly $70 million over the 5 years remaining on Braun's deal plus an additional $15 million (or $4 million buyout which I included in the $70 million as I highly doubt we pick up our end of the option) mutual option. I guess I think it would be worth the $14 million per year for Braun as I don't think we can sign someone (like Cespedes/Upton/Heyward) that offers what Braun does in free agency next offseason or the following offseason (Jose Bautista/Alex Gordon/Carlos Gomez). I think a lineup and bullpen that looks like this (below) for the remainder of 2015 could help us make the playoffs and both of the acquisitions would be around to help us win after this season as both Braun and Knebel would be under club control thru 2020.
2015 (remainder) Lineup/Rotation/Bullpen
Lineup:
1. (L) Jace Peterson- 2B
2. (R) Cameron Maybin- CF
3. (L) Freddie Freeman- 1B
4. (R) Ryan Braun- LF
5. (L) Nick Markakis- RF
6. (R) Juan Uribe- 3B
7. (L) A.J Pierzynski- C
8. (R) Andrelton Simmons- SS
9. Pitcher
Rotation-
1. Miller
2. Teheran
3. Wood
4. Wisler
5. Perez
Bullpen:
Grilli
Johnson
Knebel
Avilan
Vizcaino
McKirahan
*Masset/Aardsma/Cunniff/Folty(who could also serve as long-man)
*until Withrow is ready
Hope I didn't tick anyone off but I was just trying to "think outside the box" and this was one of the more interesting (I know, to say the least) proposals I could think of. So before you go jump down my throat, please understand I am just floating this out there as a scenario that I think could help us now and in the feature without giving up premier prospects and no I do NOT advocate the use of PED's nor am I a fan of Ryan Braun because of what he did. I am however, able to look past that and see that he could help solve an area of need both now and in the feature.
Let me know what you think...
...there's a good chance nobody will agree with me. Haha
*I know there's a strong chance that what I'm about to say is going to rub some people the wrong way and some (if not most) are going to emphatically say NO to my proposition for different reasons. But here it is anyways...
To me it's apparent that there are three main places this team needs to upgrade both for now and in the future:
1. Bullpen
2. Left Field
3. Catcher
Yes, Lucroy would solve our catching position but I want to propose another way to upgrade an area of need that I don't think will cost as much (solely in terms of prospects) as Lucroy. (Again, it's hard for me to make this proposition for reasons -that will be apparent- other than stats). Some might say that this package won't get it done, that it will take better prospects. If so, and that's the case and it doesn't then I say no thank you and walk away but before you instantly say it won't cut it or you don't want the players let me explain myself first...
Brewers get:
1. Lucas Sims
2. Jason Hursh
3. Daniel Castro
4. Todd Cunningham
5. Cody Martin
6. Chris Johnson (to help offset the cost a little)
Braves get:
1. Ryan Braun
2. Corey Knebel
3. CASH ($20 million or so)
Here's why I think it works:
Brewers side:
It's no secret that the Brewers would love to rid themselves of Ryan Braun and the roughly $100 million dollars they still owe him. We all know the Braun story so there is no need to go into detail about all that. The Brewers also know that they are going to have to eat some money in a deal if there is any chance of moving Braun. I would think they are taking the stance of "Let's do what we can to get out from underneath this deal and the more/better talent we can get back, the better". So first off and most importantly, they save close to $70 million in this deal. With Sims, Hursh, and Martin the Brewers would be adding three potential rotation candidates (Sims offers much higher upside than Hursh/Martin) in the near future to a system that is rather bare in the starting pitching department. With Castro and Cunningham they would get two guys that could help them out right away and would give them a viable replacement should they look to trade Carlos Gomez and/or Jean Segura both of whom would net them a decent to very nice (in the case of Gomez) return. If either/both of Gomez or Segura were traded, then Cunningham and Castro could step into the everyday role right away. Chris Johnson is in the deal mainly to help offset the cost but he would help them as well. With Aramis Ramirez set to become a free agent and Adam Lind having awful numbers against lefties, Johnson could be a nice addition to the Brewers as 3B insurance after this season and a platoon option with Lind at 1B right away.
Braves side:
I know there are many of you (including myself) that despise Braun for what he did but this move is about helping us win games both now and in the future. Braun would help us fill a couple holes in our everyday lineup. He can move back to his natural position of LF, he gives us our everyday LF, gives us another RH bat to add to a lineup that features four left handed hitters, and offers Freeman some protection. This would also allow you to move Markakis to the 5-hole and Braun would split he and Freeman up and not allow opposing managers to mix and match so easily like they can now by bringing in a LHP to face the top of our lineup that features a LHH in 3 of the first 4 spots in our order. Knebel gives us another late-inning reliever that likely would become our future closer.
Look, I know this wouldn't be a popular move right away but maybe with a change of scenery and a fresh start, Braun could start producing numbers like he did earlier in his career. (Insert PED line here). With the money and player salaries exchanging hands, we would be on the hook for roughly $70 million over the 5 years remaining on Braun's deal plus an additional $15 million (or $4 million buyout which I included in the $70 million as I highly doubt we pick up our end of the option) mutual option. I guess I think it would be worth the $14 million per year for Braun as I don't think we can sign someone (like Cespedes/Upton/Heyward) that offers what Braun does in free agency next offseason or the following offseason (Jose Bautista/Alex Gordon/Carlos Gomez). I think a lineup and bullpen that looks like this (below) for the remainder of 2015 could help us make the playoffs and both of the acquisitions would be around to help us win after this season as both Braun and Knebel would be under club control thru 2020.
2015 (remainder) Lineup/Rotation/Bullpen
Lineup:
1. (L) Jace Peterson- 2B
2. (R) Cameron Maybin- CF
3. (L) Freddie Freeman- 1B
4. (R) Ryan Braun- LF
5. (L) Nick Markakis- RF
6. (R) Juan Uribe- 3B
7. (L) A.J Pierzynski- C
8. (R) Andrelton Simmons- SS
9. Pitcher
Rotation-
1. Miller
2. Teheran
3. Wood
4. Wisler
5. Perez
Bullpen:
Grilli
Johnson
Knebel
Avilan
Vizcaino
McKirahan
*Masset/Aardsma/Cunniff/Folty(who could also serve as long-man)
*until Withrow is ready
Hope I didn't tick anyone off but I was just trying to "think outside the box" and this was one of the more interesting (I know, to say the least) proposals I could think of. So before you go jump down my throat, please understand I am just floating this out there as a scenario that I think could help us now and in the feature without giving up premier prospects and no I do NOT advocate the use of PED's nor am I a fan of Ryan Braun because of what he did. I am however, able to look past that and see that he could help solve an area of need both now and in the feature.
Let me know what you think...
...there's a good chance nobody will agree with me. Haha
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Jace has the same fWAR as J-Up.
Or it could be that Yankee stadiums right field is the most hitter friendly in the league by a long shot.
They have Michael Taylor for CF
sturg33
I
Out WAR-ing Nick the Stick now too
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
I do, I think we give them one player too much is the only complaint.
I wouldn't mind having Braun on our team. He did his deed and paid the price, I am a person that give second chances. Aroid I won't because he still denies it.
So you think Michael Taylor (at his salaries) over the next 6 years is a better investment of the Gnats' resources than paying Jason $20+ million per, right?
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Taylor is hardly a sure thing, anyway. He strikes out a **** ton and only produces a high BA with an absurdly high BABIP. If Souza (much lower minors K-rate) is struggling as much with Ks as he is in TB, Taylor is a good bet to stay around that 30+% mark, which is tough to do while being a good hitter.
I don't know if he's better value or not, but I don't see why a team would give up on a top 50 prospect to pay someone $20 million to play out of position. Taylor is a good defensive centerfielder at a defensive premium position. That would be a waste of limited resources unless they were to trade Taylor for something of good value.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
It's not silly at all when its Yankee Stadium... Especially when it's a hitting profile such as Mac's. Yes it would be a disaster for us to acquire him. Using splits when evaluating Yankee Stadium and Coors Field players is never silly and well documented.
sturg33
I
Remember when everyon said Justin Upton would be terrible because his road splits away from Arizona?
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Completely different situation... Justin was an elite prospect with better splits in previous years. Mac is an aging catcher who is not athletic and a boom or bust type of player hitting now that would not play well outside of the short porch at Yankee Stadium. Why would a rebuilding team acquire that kind of player?
JohnAdcox
Brian Jordan's New BFF
Dude, no way. Even the people who disagree with you the most will love having a well-argued and creative post to pick apart and argue about. This is very welcome as far as I’m concerned.
J
JohnAdcox
Brian Jordan's New BFF
And do you think Jason’s a CF in 6 years?
Mac has plenty of power. And large majority of his homers are still homers at Turner. Try again.
Do you consider 60% to be a "large majority?"
What would McCanns numbers be if you took 4 homers away and gave him doubles? Or with his speed singles? Or maybe even outs?
Yes it is silly. Using that as your only argument to criticize is a player is silly. The vast majority of players hit better at home than away. And Mac and has had drastic home/Rd splits in the past, even in Atl. Making a judgement with just over 600 at bats in a Yankee uniform is silly. Are his stats worrisome? Sure. But saying he is a complete product of Yankee stadium based off 600 at bats is most definetly silly.