Heyward to Cubs for less than $200M

smootness said:
Chill, man, I was just joking. Didn't know whether you were serious or not.

Since it's clear you were, no, it's not 'light years' of difference. I feel like I'm being trolled now. Yes, the K-rate is the separator...and it explains the difference in average, which explains the difference in slugging. So again, the K-rate is the only thing really different.

And while that is certainly important, it doesn't negate either that a) they're still relatively similar players (they definitely fall on the same spectrum, as opposed to, say, Soler and Jace Peterson) and b) Soler's K-rate was 30% last year, the same K-rate Alvarez had early in his major league career, which he has since improved upon.

Soler put up a BA of .262 and an OBP of .324 last year. Alvarez's first year, he put up a BA of .256 and an OBP of .326. The only difference is that Alvarez actually showed power that year.
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10 HR and 18 2B in only 100 games as a 22 year isn't showing power?
 
emk418 said:
10 HR and 18 2B in only 100 games as a 22 year isn't showing power?
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He was 23, not that that really matters.

But for a guy considered to have prodigious power, no, it isn't. His ISO was .137 and his SLG was under .400.

In comparison, Alvarez's ISO as a 23-year-old in his first year was .205 and his SLG was .461. He had 16 HR and 21 2B in fewer games and PA.

So if you would rather me say 'actually showed power to the level he was reported to have,' or, 'much more power,' then fine.
 
smootness said:
He was 23, not that that really matters.

But for a guy considered to have prodigious power, no, it isn't. His ISO was .137 and his SLG was under .400.

In comparison, Alvarez's ISO as a 23-year-old in his first year was .205 and his SLG was .461. He had 16 HR and 21 2B in fewer games and PA.

So if you would rather me say 'actually showed power to the level he was reported to have,' or, 'much more power,' then fine.
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why is this even being debated.. if no one wants to admit that they were wrong then just drop it really. I make erroneous statements and own up to them.. I said that Hammels junk and didn't try to spin my position when it was clear that I was wrong. is Soler just like Pedro... NOOOOO.. but if someone can't see striking similarities then so be it and let it go man.. .let it go..
 
bravesfanMatt said:
why is this even being debated.. if no one wants to admit that they were wrong then just drop it really. I make erroneous statements and own up to them.. I said that Hammels junk and didn't try to spin my position when it was clear that I was wrong. is Soler just like Pedro... NOOOOO.. but if someone can't see striking similarities then so be it and let it go man.. .let it go..
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Hey man, I'm just out here trying to function.
 
smootness said:
This may be true. Regardless, the more I read and hear about Soler, the less excited I get about potentially adding him.

I'm not opposed to it in the right deal, but I definitely would want something else legitimate back to reduce some of the risk. And we would also have to be prepared to put him permanently in LF, which would send Olivera to 3B permanently and remove some of the variety in our options for building going forward.
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He's definitely got risk... But the velocity in which he hits a baseball is just unmatched by anyone. I know it doesn't matter if he can't develop his hitting skills but that potential with that velocity is mouth watering.
 
zbhargrove said:
He's definitely got risk... But the velocity in which he hits a baseball is just unmatched by anyone. I know it doesn't matter if he can't develop his hitting skills but that potential with that velocity is mouth watering.
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I get that, but I've seen too many guys like that bust. Again, I'm not opposed to getting Soler, but if it's just a decision between Inciarte and Soler, give me the guy who's done it and does everything well.
 
smootness said:
I get that, but I've seen too many guys like that bust. Again, I'm not opposed to getting Soler, but if it's just a decision between Inciarte and Soler, give me the guy who's done it and does everything well.
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me too.. unless we can hedge our risk some how.. (more than Soler)
 
Just saw this on ESPN:

Matheny agitated by Heyward's comments

Upon hearing that OF Jason Heyward had questioned St. Louis' aging core, manager Mike Matheny said: "I don't think it's going to ring too well with our club." Heyward, who played one year with the Cards, signed an 8-year, $184 million contract with Chicago earlier this month.
 
NYCBrave said:
Just saw this on ESPN:

Matheny agitated by Heyward's comments

Upon hearing that OF Jason Heyward had questioned St. Louis' aging core, manager Mike Matheny said: "I don't think it's going to ring too well with our club." Heyward, who played one year with the Cards, signed an 8-year, $184 million contract with Chicago earlier this month.
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I like how Matheny completely misconstrues what Heyward said.

Heyward never said "better" core. He only said "younger", which is, well, obvious.
 
zbhargrove said:
Seems like Heyward is making a habit of saying questionable things about his previous clubs... Just sayin...
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Yea, it actually seems like Heyward didn't really say anything especially questionable, in this case:

[Heyward] referenced Yadier Molina, Matt Holliday and Adam Wainwright as players who might not be around through [his] peak years.

"The St. Louis Cardinals are always going to be a great organization, and I don't think anyone would ever be surprised if they win a World Series any year," Heyward said. "[But] if I were to look up in three years and saw a completely different team, that would be kind of different for me."
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All Heyward really "questioned" (and quite reasonably, I would say) was whether a thirty-three-year-old catcher, an almost-thirty-six-year-old outfielder, and a thirty-four-year-old pitcher coming off a major surgery would still be big parts of the St Louis team in a half-decade. All three are world-class, possibly hall-of-fame players, so they might be; but if roster-continuity is a substantial draw to Heyward, I think he made the right bet (and moreover should be glad the Braves traded him).
 
i
NYCBrave said:
Just saw this on ESPN:

Matheny agitated by Heyward's comments

Upon hearing that OF Jason Heyward had questioned St. Louis' aging core, manager Mike Matheny said: "I don't think it's going to ring too well with our club." Heyward, who played one year with the Cards, signed an 8-year, $184 million contract with Chicago earlier this month.
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I mean...

Holliday is 36, Yadi is 33, and had injury problems in the past, Peralta is 33 or 34, Waino is 34, farm system isnt as strong as it was 3-4 years ago.

Really not THAT crazy.
 
zbhargrove said:
You mad, bro?
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Nope. Just wondering what questionable things he said.

He was asked why he signed with the Cubs, he explained it. I remember nothing negative he said about the Braves.

Infact at his presser for the Cubs he said

"I don't have one bad thing to say about the Cardinals organization,"

Was he honest? Yes, isn't that what people want in players? It wasn't like he was being mean to the Cardinals. He stated why he was leaving to Chicago. He could have given a PC correct answer, would that make you feel better if he said "I took less money because I've always wanted to be a Cub." And you knew he was lying?
 
zitothebrave said:
Nope. Just wondering what questionable things he said.

He was asked why he signed with the Cubs, he explained it. I remember nothing negative he said about the Braves.

Infact at his presser for the Cubs he said

"I don't have one bad thing to say about the Cardinals organization,"

Was he honest? Yes, isn't that what people want in players? It wasn't like he was being mean to the Cardinals. He stated why he was leaving to Chicago. He could have given a PC correct answer, would that make you feel better if he said "I took less money because I've always wanted to be a Cub." And you knew he was lying?
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Lol.... You are way too emotional right now. I can't even say something tongue in cheek. What's funny is that you're taking time to type long replies and you're actually emotionally bothered. It will be okay.
 
zbhargrove said:
Lol.... You are way too emotional right now. I can't even say something tongue in cheek. What's funny is that you're taking time to type long replies and you're actually emotionally bothered. It will be okay.
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I think you're confusing tongue in cheek with stupid.
 
zbhargrove said:
Lol.... You are way too emotional right now. I can't even say something tongue in cheek. What's funny is that you're taking time to type long replies and you're actually emotionally bothered. It will be okay.
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What about his response led you to believe he was emotionally bothered?
 
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