I don't like Medlen moving to the pen because it kills his trade value but I do think it makes the team better. We add a dominant set up man to our pen and have either Beachy or Wood who in theory can do as good or better in the rotation then Medlen is right now.
How good are we really?
- Thread starter Tino25Dynasty
- Start date
I don't like Medlen moving to the pen because it kills his trade value but I do think it makes the team better. We add a dominant set up man to our pen and have either Beachy or Wood who in theory can do as good or better in the rotation then Medlen is right now.
This kind of already has the feel of two years ago during the collapse. The question then wasn't if we were going to turn it around but will the season end before the Cardinals had time to catch us. Not saying we can't turn it around because the talent certainly is there, but kind of feels like we need to start counting down the days till the season ends in hopes of making the playoffs.
Again, I will never say this is just Fredi's fault, but the first change needs to be getting rid of him. Since we have no room on the roster to make drastic changes, firing Fredi is the only drastic move we could/should make.
Again, I will never say this is just Fredi's fault, but the first change needs to be getting rid of him. Since we have no room on the roster to make drastic changes, firing Fredi is the only drastic move we could/should make.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
This team is a 500 team with our OF playing like this. For us to win post season games our OF has to be at least 75% of their potential.
So far Upton is awful. JUp is avg at best (esp when you factor in D). Heyward is solid b/c of D and running, but hitting is about avg for position.
This team is built to have solid pitching (we look better than solid now, but vs better line ups in the playoffs we won't be as good) and a stud OF. The OF is the entire team. That is why I wouldn't trade a decent asset for anything at the deadline. We are all in on the OF.
So far Upton is awful. JUp is avg at best (esp when you factor in D). Heyward is solid b/c of D and running, but hitting is about avg for position.
This team is built to have solid pitching (we look better than solid now, but vs better line ups in the playoffs we won't be as good) and a stud OF. The OF is the entire team. That is why I wouldn't trade a decent asset for anything at the deadline. We are all in on the OF.
There is nothing Wren can do to improve this team in any significant way. A LHed BP arm won't really make much of a difference.
The problem is most of the studs aren't being studs. Freddie and Mac are doing well. JUpton is doing just OK. Heyward, BUpton and Uggla are sucking wind. Simmons isn't the leadoff hitter many thought he would be.
For this team to win in the postseason the studs need to make an impact. If they sleepwalk like they are now the Braves will be celebrating the hanging of another division championship flag because they will be out of the postseason quickly.
The men that are supposed to be "the guy" need to step up. Simple as that really. Wren can't possibly build a team expecting guys to underperform so drastically.
The problem is most of the studs aren't being studs. Freddie and Mac are doing well. JUpton is doing just OK. Heyward, BUpton and Uggla are sucking wind. Simmons isn't the leadoff hitter many thought he would be.
For this team to win in the postseason the studs need to make an impact. If they sleepwalk like they are now the Braves will be celebrating the hanging of another division championship flag because they will be out of the postseason quickly.
The men that are supposed to be "the guy" need to step up. Simple as that really. Wren can't possibly build a team expecting guys to underperform so drastically.
Tino25Dynasty
Arizona Fall Leaguer
Great points... And you're right... It's been kinda just hoping none of the teams in our division get hot (and so far that's been the case) but even then, lets face it. We still really felt like "yea, even if we get in the postseason, we'll be lucky to win a game".
You're right... Especially about JUp.... Since April, he has been subpar... I don't know why he's even still in the 3 spot to be honest. I guess because guys like Simmons, BJ, Heyward, and Uggla are as bad and worse, the fact JUp hasn't been great goes more unnoticed
Nerfherders
Well-known member
I keep waiting for the Nats to figure it out and go on a 20-10 run. If/when they do that, suddenly they'll be back in it because the Braves won't do better than 15-15. With each passing day I have less and less faith that the Braves can go on a run - something like 12-4 would probably be enough. I kind of gave the Braves a pass since they had such a brutal schedule early in the season, but now they've gone 17-20 in their last 37 games, and 7-12 on the road in that span. This stretch includes 27 games against losing teams. Amazingly, they've only lost a half game on second place since then, and gained a half game on the Nats.
But I can almost guarantee that if the Braves continue the slow bleed, they will get caught. 29-33 from here on out would get the Braves to 85 wins. Does anyone think that's going to be enough?
But I can almost guarantee that if the Braves continue the slow bleed, they will get caught. 29-33 from here on out would get the Braves to 85 wins. Does anyone think that's going to be enough?
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
Fredi is a big problem. Coaching as a whole, actually. Pitchers can't execute 0-2 pitches. Hitters can't hit. Baserunners can't run. No one can play small ball. With a team like that, you can't have the guy at the top consistently putting players in the best position to LOSE.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
I've heard Leo Mazzone tell a story about Maddux asking him to warn Bobby that Greg would give up a lot of 0-2 hits. He told it again on the pre-game show yesterday, in the context of the stat that the Braves staff led the league in 0-2 hits allowed. Leo expressed a preference for guys sticking to their plans to get batters out rather than wasting pitches based on count, without really accomplishing anything.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
We are the 4th best team in the NL, behind STL, LA, PIT (In that order, IMO)
And probably the 10th best overall behind the AL Teams : Boston, Tampa, Detroit, Oakland, Texas
Bottom line is, our front end pitching isn't good enough...and our lineup is, well, you guys know.
And probably the 10th best overall behind the AL Teams : Boston, Tampa, Detroit, Oakland, Texas
Bottom line is, our front end pitching isn't good enough...and our lineup is, well, you guys know.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
Pretty much all the things I wanted to say have been said already. But the main point is this. Wren can make a tweak here or there for depth, Fredi can make a lineup change or whatever, but until all of the supposed "it" guys start being the "it" guys and producing, this team won't reach its full potential. I don't want to say they're not trying, but there's absolutely no visible sense of urgency. And don't try to bring up Heyward's amazing catch the other night. I'm talking about day in and day out. There's no fire. If you can't see that, you're blind. Every team can't have a Yasiel Puig that gives a jolt, but someone, anyone, needs to get that boot in the ass mentality. This team needs Chipper Jones type leadership in the worst way possible.
That's pretty cliche.
We had Chipper's leadership in the worst way possible in 2011 and that didn't do us much good.
What we need is some guy to step it up and show the rest of the team how it's done. Freeman was doing that before the ASB.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Lol at leadership fixing it....what we "need in the worst possible way" is an Ace and people to stop striking out and starting getting hits/walks.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
I only use Chipper as an example because he is seen as the generic go-to guy, but you're right. Mainly it's time for Heyward to take that role. Or whoever. It's got to be the players because I have no confidence in Fredi.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
An ace would definitely help, but we're not getting an ace, so we have to find another way. Part of not striking out and having better at bats is having someone lead by example if nothing else.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
With you 100% on the first half of your argument. You lose me a bit on the leadership/no urgency stuff, but the guys who are expected to produce need to produce and outside of Freeman and McCann that hasn't been happening with any regularity.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
Well I'm still waiting for this team to put together a torrid 2-3 week stretch like they're supposedly capable of. Have been waiting since the third week of the season when they were 13-2.
So let me get this straight.
You started waiting for this team to have a 2-3 week torrid stretch, when they had just finished a 2 week torrid stretch?
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
So let me get this straight.
You started waiting for this team to have a 2-3 week torrid stretch, when they had just finished a 2 week torrid stretch?
Well been waiting since May, I should say. You get the point.
I know. I'm just messing with you.
What part of Savannah are you in? I'm over by Daffin.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
I know. I'm just messing with you.
What part of Savannah are you in? I'm over by Daffin.
Over in that same area, across Victory from Daffin though. It's a lively neighborhood.