Immaculate Team?

How about we get off the race and politics discussion and get back to baseball...?

Someone asked earlier what kind of contract Ohtani will get this offseason, personally I feel like it could go 1 of 2 ways, but either will be record setting.

I refuse to believe a team is going to give him $500m or more. I could see something along the line of a 10 year / $450m deal or 11 year / $475m type deal. Or a shorter term deal at $50m AAV with a an opt out or two.
 
Tapate50 said:
He’s a 30+m dollar hitter and a 30+m dollar pitcher.

He’s gonna get a lot.
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Don't doubt his ability. I doubt the ability of a team to commit to $500m for 1 player. As someone has mentioned, if he goes down for any length of time, your team is in the hurt locker. Not to mention, he will be 30 years old next season.

His decline won't be too far behind after the first 3 or 4 seasons.
 
bravesfanforlife88 said:
Don't doubt his ability. I doubt the ability of a team to commit to $500m for 1 player. As someone has mentioned, if he goes down for any length of time, your team is in the hurt locker. Not to mention, he will be 30 years old next season.

His decline won't be too far behind after the first 3 or 4 seasons.
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I'd pass on Ohtani, for the same reasons you mentioned. Plus, his overall game is so energy-consuming that he's going to feel it at some point. What he's able to do right now without missing a beat on either side of the ball is wild. But it is not a recipe for longevity. There's a reason pitchers take 4 days to recover between starts. Yes, swinging the bat is a different kind of stress than pitching, and he's not playing the field. But it's also far from resting. As he gets up in age, something's gotta give. Either his team limits his IP, or they don't bat him on the days he pitches, or he's increasingly going to deal with nagging injuries.
 
I mean is there really much of a difference between 10 years 475 million and 10 years 500 million? You think a team spending in the price range is gonna let another 25 million keep them from getting the best player in the game?
 
Strike3urout said:
I'd pass on Ohtani, for the same reasons you mentioned. Plus, his overall game is so energy-consuming that he's going to feel it at some point. What he's able to do right now without missing a beat on either side of the ball is wild. But it is not a recipe for longevity. There's a reason pitchers take 4 days to recover between starts. Yes, swinging the bat is a different kind of stress than pitching, and he's not playing the field. But it's also far from resting. As he gets up in age, something's gotta give. Either his team limits his IP, or they don't bat him on the days he pitches, or he's increasingly going to deal with nagging injuries.
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I keep wrestling with the Ohtani concept. There's the "good" Ohtani. From 2021-though the midpoint of 2023, he has amassed 12.3 bWar as a hitter, and 12.8 bWar as a pitcher. Anyway you add that up, those are all-time numbers, especially since he basically frees up an "extra" roster slot.

But then there's the "bad" Ohtani, who from the beginning of 2018-the end of 2020, totaled 5.2 total bWar as a hitter and 0.9 bWar as a pitcher. There were injures, of course--injuries that limited him total of four innings on the mound from June 6, 2018-the end of the COVID-shotened 2020 season.

BTW, the Angels' record with the "bad" Ohtani (2018-2020)? 178-206, a winning percentage of .463. With the "Babe Ruth" Ohtani (2021-2023)? 195-220, a winning percentage of .469.

And there's no doubt he is going to get an ultra-massive contract, but if I was a MLB GM, I would do a hard pass.
 
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JCarbo76 said:
I keep wrestling with the Ohtani concept. There's the "good" Ohtani. From 2021-though the midpoint of 2023, he has amassed 12.3 bWar as a hitter, and 12.8 bWar as a pitcher. Anyway you add that up, those are all-time numbers, especially since he basically frees up an "extra" roster slot.

But then there's the "bad" Ohtani, who from the beginning of 2018-the end of 2020, totaled 5.2 total bWar as a hitter and 0.9 bWar as a pitcher. There were injures, of course--injuries that limited him total of four innings on the mound from June 6, 2018-the end of the COVID-shotened 2020 season.

BTW, the Angels' record with the "bad" Ohtani (2018-2020)? 178-206, a winning percentage of .463. With the "Babe Ruth" Ohtani (2021-2023)? 195-220, a winning percentage off .469.

And there's no doubt he is going to get an ultra-massive contract, but if I was a MLB GM, I would do a hard pass.
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I guess that's one way to look at it. If he's right, you're covering two needs for around the price of one and a half star players. But if something goes wrong, mainly injury, you're paying one and a half stars and have two holes in your roster.
 
Ohtani isn't just covering 2 needs. Ohtani allows you to essentially carry 14 pitchers on your team. That's a value I don't think can be understated. Basically allows you to go to your BP in the 5th inning of every game without overusing your pitchers.
 
Carp said:
Ohtani isn't just covering 2 needs. Ohtani allows you to essentially carry 14 pitchers on your team. That's a value I don't think can be understated. Basically allows you to go to your BP in the 5th inning of every game without overusing your pitchers.
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The problem is you can't afford any good pen guys to go to.
 
Ohtani also doesn't really add the same marginal value to the Braves that he would to a team that isn't already pretty much maximizing revenue. There would obviously be some promotional value, but the team is already selling out pretty much every home game anyway.

I'm not at all arguing against signing him...it's not my money, so I want AA to have an all-star in all 26 roster spots if possible. Just pointing out even more reasons why no one should get their hopes up.
 
DirkPiggler said:
Ohtani also doesn't really add the same marginal value to the Braves that he would to a team that isn't already pretty much maximizing revenue. There would obviously be some promotional value, but the team is already selling out pretty much every home game anyway.

I'm not at all arguing against signing him...it's not my money, so I want AA to have an all-star in all 26 roster spots if possible. Just pointing out even more reasons why no one should get their hopes up.
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Ticket prices can always go up
 
DirkPiggler said:
Ohtani also doesn't really add the same marginal value to the Braves that he would to a team that isn't already pretty much maximizing revenue. There would obviously be some promotional value, but the team is already selling out pretty much every home game anyway.

I'm not at all arguing against signing him...it's not my money, so I want AA to have an all-star in all 26 roster spots if possible. Just pointing out even more reasons why no one should get their hopes up.
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I'm curious how the Braves going public is going to coincide with the payroll. From the sounds of it, as long as the revenue is profitable, the Braves will be able to have a good payroll. As mentioned above, we can raise ticket prices as they had to actually stop selling season tickets this year or they wouldn't have single game tickets to sell.

We are set up to be good for a few years to come, so hopefully ticket sales will continue to be through the roof. Then we get a new TV contract in 2027/2028.

Not saying that is reason enough to sign Ohtani. Besides we will have positions that need to be filled.

Pillar
Jimenez
Chavez
Adrianza
Culberson

Club options:
Morton
Rosario
d'Arnaud
McHugh
Yates
 
bravesfanforlife88 said:
I'm curious how the Braves going public is going to coincide with the payroll. From the sounds of it, as long as the revenue is profitable, the Braves will be able to have a good payroll. As mentioned above, we can raise ticket prices as they had to actually stop selling season tickets this year or they wouldn't have single game tickets to sell.

We are set up to be good for a few years to come, so hopefully ticket sales will continue to be through the roof. Then we get a new TV contract in 2027/2028.

Not saying that is reason enough to sign Ohtani. Besides we will have positions that need to be filled.

Pillar
Jimenez
Chavez
Adrianza
Culberson

Club options:
Morton
Rosario
d'Arnaud
McHugh
Yates
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Mostly looking at the bottom. If we in the WS, i think Morton retires. Rosario at 9M is really good value, TDA at 8M is a LOCK (lowkey could get alot back if we moved him even at his age, wont happen though). McHugh and Yates at 5-6M each isnt horrible value, honestly.

Pillar i'd like back or AA can find someone off the scrap heap again. JoJim is probably gone, Chavez could retire if we win the WS. Hope you're joking on Adrianza and Culberson, they do nothing Shewmake or Grissom couldnt do.
 
Heyward said:
Mostly looking at the bottom. If we in the WS, i think Morton retires. Rosario at 9M is really good value, TDA at 8M is a LOCK (lowkey could get alot back if we moved him even at his age, wont happen though). McHugh and Yates at 5-6M each isnt horrible value, honestly.

Pillar i'd like back or AA can find someone off the scrap heap again. JoJim is probably gone, Chavez could retire if we win the WS. Hope you're joking on Adrianza and Culberson, they do nothing Shewmake or Grissom couldnt do.
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I mentioned them just being the back up options on the bench. Of course Shew or Grissom could replace them, but there is the possibility one of them gets moved at the deadline....
 
Haven't seen this mentioned but at some point during the contract, I feel like Ohtani will give up the two-way thing for longevity and just hit. I find it all pretty comical the influx of two-way player possibilities after Ohtani shows up despite Manfred shoving the DH down the throats of NL-only fans.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
Haven't seen this mentioned but at some point during the contract, I feel like Ohtani will give up the two-way thing for longevity and just hit. I find it all pretty comical the influx of two-way player possibilities after Ohtani shows up despite Manfred shoving the DH down the throats of NL-only fans.
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that last part doesn't make sense.. wouldn't the DH be the reason 2 way players are coming around... otherwise your superstar hitter only hits every 5th day???
 
VirginiaBrave said:
Haven't seen this mentioned but at some point during the contract, I feel like Ohtani will give up the two-way thing for longevity and just hit. I find it all pretty comical the influx of two-way player possibilities after Ohtani shows up despite Manfred shoving the DH down the throats of NL-only fans.
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Having the DH increases the possibility of more two-way players. There’s a reason Ohtani went to an AL team.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
that last part doesn't make sense.. wouldn't the DH be the reason 2 way players are coming around... otherwise your superstar hitter only hits every 5th day???
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To me two-way players are a fad that will eventally fade. You are twisting the logic to fit the current narrative. I would argue that Don Drysdale was a two way player, as was Cloninger, etc. There were countless pitchers who could do more than just hit. Ferrell in 1931 comes to mind, how many home runs could he have hit doing what Ohtani has done? To me Ohtani is a gimmick more than anything and should have declare one side or the other each season. Look I get he's talented from both sides but the overhype like he's God in baseball is stupid. "Oh he's the only one to do X!!! That's because he's the only one that's been allowed to try and do it. He's was brought up being an athlete. He wasn't pigeon holed at twelve saying "you are a pitcher" like most American kids are today. You put him on the Braves right now and his value is in the rotation but with most clubs it is probably at the plate.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
To me two-way players are a fad that will eventally fade. You are twisting the logic to fit the current narrative. I would argue that Don Drysdale was a two way player, as was Cloninger, etc. There were countless pitchers who could do more than just hit. Ferrell in 1931 comes to mind, how many home runs could he have hit doing what Ohtani has done? To me Ohtani is a gimmick more than anything and should have declare one side or the other each season. Look I get he's talented from both sides but the overhype like he's God in baseball is stupid. "Oh he's the only one to do X!!! That's because he's the only one that's been allowed to try and do it. He's was brought up being an athlete. He wasn't pigeon holed at twelve saying "you are a pitcher" like most American kids are today. You put him on the Braves right now and his value is in the rotation but with most clubs it is probably at the plate.
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Holy ****.
 
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