Impeachment
- Thread starter 57Brave
- Start date
sturg33
I
Your response to stopping "tyranny" is to vote in someone who wants quintuple the size of the government's power?
Runnin
Well-known member
Govt power over citizens has to increase, especially over citizens with the means to go around laws and regulations. Americans aren't intelligent or moral enough to govern themselves.
It doesn't matter that much what any one candidate's policy is when they still have to get Congress and citizens to come on board. These policy ideas are really about trying to separate themselves from other candidates. The rubber will meet the road eventually.
This is the true definition of tyranny.
sturg33
I
Gosh how would I survive without daddy government telling me what's best for me
sturg33
I
Was an unexpected response but yet another revealing one
Communism is right around the corner.
Runnin
Well-known member
And what do you see this tyrant wanting to do with the size of government? He wants to kill it and control everything from the oval office. Does that sound like a good idea? Americans do not want to live under a tyrant who tells them what to believe. It may take them an embarrassing long time to come to this realization, but I think more than 49% will get there. I think we're at the threshold of tyranny. If Trump is allowed to get away with this then there is no check on his power. He's guilty of bribery/extortion and he's done it pretty much in plain sight. What's more, it was all completely unnecessary, unless this is the way he wants to go out - in a big ugly brouhaha. Will Trump really attend the hearings??? I hope they have a gag handy. I wouldn't allow him in the room unless he's under oath and testifying himself. There's no way he can sit there quietly. He'll call for someone's head.
Runnin
Well-known member
Govt power over citizens is not tyranny. Lawless people and corporations need clear boundaries and control. Law-abiding citizens expect govt to provide for fair, consistent control.
Law enforcement must be reformed, it must be controlled too. Who controls the military?
Your quixotic views on freedom I've never understood. It's not that difficult to live within the rules, and if you have to follow a few rules you don't like because govt decides that said rules are better for the collective, then you follow the rules or live with the consequences.
sturg33
I
I'm trying to understand how Trump is telling everyone what to believe and control everything from the oval office. I think he is a nice bafoon and go on with my day.
For the most part, he's completely left us alone.
He's corrupt like every other President, just much worse at hiding it.
I've never understand how the left worships some like FDR so much. That's what actual tyranny looks like
Runnin
Well-known member
When that happens it will be the result of corporate greed leaving its citizens to live in squalor.
sturg33
I
Just remember whatever power you lust to give "your side", you risk giving that power to someone like the orange man .
Caging children comes to mind...
sturg33
I
I don't understand this.
When were things better in this country? Like, actually give me a year or a decade
Runnin
Well-known member
Tyranny to pull the country out of depression and to build infrastructure and a middle class? My idea is a little different. It's when a leader throws the laws out the window and says he alone will decide what is just and necessary. When that leader turns his back on his country and seeks only what is good for him.
The choice is very clear. We will see what kind of "tyranny" the American people want.
Runnin
Well-known member
I don't know what you're talking about. I commented that communism would only come to America if capitalism failed and drove people to it. Call it the free market of ideas at work.
Social mobility and economic fairness began to chart downward with Reagan in 1980. From 1950 to 1980 taxes were more reasonable and the middle class was still thriving.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
How do you define better. The country had never been more polarized and we have an outright criminal thug in the White House shutting all over the everything this country is supposed to be. During Trumps time the economy went from good to great. During Obama's years the economy went from a dumpster fire to very good. I would say the Clinton years were better all around, especially during the dotcom bubble. Obama started the longest period of economic expansion we have ever seen. He did the hard part, Trump is just piggybacking and taking all the credit. This wont continue for another 5 years. So if he gets reelected we most likely will end his Presidency in a very bad position. Best case scenario for him is to lose so whoever takes over after him gets the blame for his incompetence.
Runnin
Well-known member
Do you want to give American politicians the right to seek political help, real or manufactured, from foreign countries? And do you want to allow sitting Presidents to use the country's great wealth and might to extort this help?
Do you not see where that policy would lead?
What's to stop some Democratic candidate from contacting China, dangling a soft trade deal, or promising more aid to Israel? I'll bet Mossad could produce a pee tape or some serious dirt on Trump if they wanted to.
Last edited:
Runnin
Well-known member
From first transcripts of impeachment inquiry testimony (Did the GOP really want this stuff public???)
1. Yovanovitch said she was warned to 'watch my back'
The former ambassador told impeachment investigators that a Ukrainian official warned her in 2019 to "watch my back" because of Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani and his associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman.
2. Yovanovitch felt threatened by Trump's words
When Yovanovitch read the transcript of the call between Trump and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky, she was confused and worried.
Trump had told Zelenksy of Yovanovitch, "she's going to go through some things."
3. The ambassador needed protection from a presidential tweet
Yovanovitch also described being told she'd have to leave her post and that she needed to get out of the country -- not for her physical security, but to keep her safe from a Trump tweet.
4. She angered Giuliani with a blocked visa
Yovanovitch described at length the ties between Giuliani and Victor Shokin, the prosecutor Joe Biden and others opposed in Ukraine for not combating corruption. And she said she helped block a visa for Shokin to visit the US, a trip she later learned was in part so that he could meet with Giuliani to reveal dirt on Democrats. She said Shokin lied on his visa application.
5. She asked for support and didn't get it
The former ambassador said she asked for support when she was attacked by Giuliani and others. But she didn't get it and one reason is there was a fear that Trump could undercut the State Department.
6. Sondland told Yovanovitch to protect herself by tweeting a pro-Trump message
7. Trump may have called into Giuliani meeting with Ukraine prosecutor
8. Sean Hannity may know more than Mike Pompeo
9. Pompeo adviser quit over politics being forced on diplomats
10. McKinley forwarded allegations of bullying
McKinley described his conversations with George Kent, the State Department official overseeing Eurasian policy, and he was told by Kent that the department was not being supportive of people swept into the inquiry. McKinley used the term "bullying tactics" and forwarded a memo Kent wrote.
11. Republicans are taking part in the inquiry
The White House and Republicans on Capitol Hill have attacked the process of the impeachment inquiry for being closed and for not featuring White House lawyers. Democrats have countered that open hearings will come and that Trump will have the opportunity to defend himself. The transcripts clearly show that Republicans are taking part in the testimony. Republican lawmakers and attorneys ask tough questions of the witnesses.
1. Yovanovitch said she was warned to 'watch my back'
The former ambassador told impeachment investigators that a Ukrainian official warned her in 2019 to "watch my back" because of Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani and his associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman.
2. Yovanovitch felt threatened by Trump's words
When Yovanovitch read the transcript of the call between Trump and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky, she was confused and worried.
Trump had told Zelenksy of Yovanovitch, "she's going to go through some things."
3. The ambassador needed protection from a presidential tweet
Yovanovitch also described being told she'd have to leave her post and that she needed to get out of the country -- not for her physical security, but to keep her safe from a Trump tweet.
4. She angered Giuliani with a blocked visa
Yovanovitch described at length the ties between Giuliani and Victor Shokin, the prosecutor Joe Biden and others opposed in Ukraine for not combating corruption. And she said she helped block a visa for Shokin to visit the US, a trip she later learned was in part so that he could meet with Giuliani to reveal dirt on Democrats. She said Shokin lied on his visa application.
5. She asked for support and didn't get it
The former ambassador said she asked for support when she was attacked by Giuliani and others. But she didn't get it and one reason is there was a fear that Trump could undercut the State Department.
6. Sondland told Yovanovitch to protect herself by tweeting a pro-Trump message
7. Trump may have called into Giuliani meeting with Ukraine prosecutor
8. Sean Hannity may know more than Mike Pompeo
9. Pompeo adviser quit over politics being forced on diplomats
10. McKinley forwarded allegations of bullying
McKinley described his conversations with George Kent, the State Department official overseeing Eurasian policy, and he was told by Kent that the department was not being supportive of people swept into the inquiry. McKinley used the term "bullying tactics" and forwarded a memo Kent wrote.
11. Republicans are taking part in the inquiry
The White House and Republicans on Capitol Hill have attacked the process of the impeachment inquiry for being closed and for not featuring White House lawyers. Democrats have countered that open hearings will come and that Trump will have the opportunity to defend himself. The transcripts clearly show that Republicans are taking part in the testimony. Republican lawmakers and attorneys ask tough questions of the witnesses.